[Housetek]

Note i have friends in NishiMotto food Co., B.A.T *british american tobacco Japan*, Head of administrations for Temple Japan, also a friend who works in japanese pharmaceuticals, and interpretor and foreign consultant.

Also i wrote this huuuge response to this that was more elaborate then my computer crashed. so sorry if im leaving some of my points out, its very late here and im tryin to stay awake to type =p

Originally Posted by Suki

That's right, but what I meant is that there's people here perfectly capable of doing a job just as well as a Japanese, but they still wouldn't hire them cause they don't think it is right to get involved with non-Japanese people when it comes to bussiness.

I am also a foreigner, *Vietnamese American* looking for work in japan so i've been thru this all and talked to my friends who work for Japanese companies or own Japanese companies.

Its all about picking the right companies who are needing foreigners to work for them.

Dont expect to get a job for a japanese company that doesnt intend to go international or has any thing to do with that.

You gotta do your research, find what companies are looking for applicants, and set up a lot of interviews b4 you go to japan and dive into the work industries.


ill explain more in the next quote

Originally Posted by Suki

Sure there is, but we're talking about people who've been studying Japanese intesively for 4 years, they got a degree, you know, they have been prepared to translate, they know how to deal with the language, they're not just some fucking geeks who like the language. Plus let's say you have an English person with a good level of Japanese and who is working for a translation agency, then there's a Japanese one who knows as much English as the native English person knows Japanese. Isn't it the same? A Japanese agency would hire the native Japanese speaker even if his/her level of English weren't as good, when maybe the English person would do better at this particular job.

No its not the same, not at all in fact.
Your completely forgetting about internal networking.

Generally American companies will hire an American who studies japanese, while a Japanese company will hire a Japanese who studied English.

Why
b/c of Internal networking and communication. There i a whole culture of Japan which you dont quite fully understand.

and its very important in the business world.

i will elaborate in the next quote

Originally Posted by Suki

Yeah, right. Not racism but that's being close-minded. It's okay if you're looking for someone to have a laugh, you sure will get on better with a person that knows stuff a foreinger wouldn't, but we're talking about work, we're talking about people who are turned down for not being Japanese despite their potential. Sorry but that I cannot put up with. I just don't think that's acting profesionally.

I dont want to be rude, but you dont fully understand how important it is in japanese CULTURE to socialize after work.

it is their CULTURE, you can knock it if you want, but its somthing thats been in japanese history for hundreds of years and will continue to be there.

Its VERY important to go out with co worker and build relationships with them, its like a "team building" tactic.

You go out on a Friday night around 8-12, just look at how many Salary men are around with their co workers, Look at how many business associates are hanging out with each other.

to the average person, this just looks like a few beers after work.

NO, its more complicated then that.

There is rules and etiquette in how to treat superiors and co workers. Socialization isnt just something to do after work, it is apart of work.

Theres a system of hierarchy, ways to act, and you have to know what kind of language to use, and what is appropriate to say and what is not. These are things taught and formed through out a Japanese persons life.

And also in many asian cultures.

So you have 2 japanese people applying for the same job, one is a lil less qualified but MUCH more socialable and likeable, he will get the job over the other person. They are looking for that drive, and some one who will positively be a good addition to the company, b/c they know over time every one can learn the job, its all about drive and personality.

That is the "X factor" so many people can get a degrees that says they are qualified for this and that, but that Personality is a huge hitter.

We're talking about a Country with a server lack of jobs and many qualified people. its that lil extra bit of sociability which will determine your job.

Originally Posted by Suki

It's not just Japan. And I'm not American so I won't go into that. The thing is nowadays loads of people get to go to University so when they get done with their studies they find no jobs due to the fact that there're not enough for the lot of them. So they end up working at some bar or, as you said, doing jobs which are far underneath their abilities.

So you're saying that any company should make sure people in their own country get a job before employing a foreinger? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe fuck their protectionist politics.

of course not japan, but please realize that Japan is a over populated country such as India, and China.

To the point were lack of jobs and security after school is a Epidemic.

The Japanese business mentality: according to my Mentor Chikako (whose a consultant for the same pharmaceutical company that created Viagra, and also a native Japanese speaker working for an American company.
* also has many years in japanese businesses*)

The Japanese business mentality is, if a Japanese company hires a Japanese person, it is giving another native person a job in a country where jobs are severely lacking.

If they have to denies a foreigner who has the same qualifications to do so, then that person can go to another company and try their luck or search for jobs in their own country.

America has a job SURPLUS, we have TOO many jobs.

While Japan is desperately making new jobs so the unemployment rate wont skyrocket.

Have you ever been to japan?
If you get a chance go to a McDonalds.
See how many people it takes to run a lil McDonalds stand in a JR Station.
about 10!
Imagine seeing 5 people work on the same burger order. One cooking it, One making it, another wrapping it, and another bagging it. Then the cashier handing it to you.

All these things could be done by 2 people. Why is it like this? SEVERE lack of jobs. They make up things for people to do!

now think of the amounts of companies who are flooded by applications every single day.

You say "fuck their protectionist politics"

Come to japan and tell that to the people with medical Degrees who are now driving taxis. Who cant get a job in America b/c they dont speak the language well enough.

Tell that to the thousands of students gambling on spending countless dollars in a college education with very slim security of a job afterwards.

Tell that to the countless bartenders and people with odd jobs in japan with Bachelors and Masters degrees.

Tell that to all the unemployed college graduates who cant get a job they've been studying for, for years, and also cant get a job in America due to their proficiency level in the English language.

boo f'ing hoo, poor foreigners who cant get a job in a country whos already lacking of major jobs for its own people.

boo hoo for the Foreigners who still are fluent in their own language and could find jobs in their own countries.

Were talking about people who go to school in their own country and cant get jobs there, and also have very slim chance of getting jobs else where.

The world isnt fair, but if you look at it from the perspective of the japanese.
Its not the greatest situation to be in when you go to school for a specific job in japan and cant land a position after school.

You may call it closed mindedness so be it.

But the so called protectionist politics, gives Japanese a lil more hope to land a job in their own country.

b/c otherwise they have very few options after that.

Even with all of the lack of jobs, Japanese businesses are still booming and growing, and already i have found 2 possible jobs here.

Originally Posted by Suki

If my friends want to get a job related to what they've been studying for 4 long years, they need to get their ass out of the country, go to Japan and wait for some non-prejudiced western employers to hire them.

also know, if your friend studied to be a interpretor, dont expect to get that job off the bat, unless you got connections or you must be a god damn prodigy.

Japanese business culture has a hierarchy. You want a job in that position?, you best get your ass at a lower position first and learn the company and climb up that ladder.

Fresh face out of college studying for 4 years? im taking he has little to no experience?

hes gonna lose that position to some one who has the same degree that is Japanese but started at a lower position and through the business socialization culture, he will climb the ranks faster.

Advise your friend to find a company they are interested in and applying for a lower level position with clear description of their ambition to reach their true goal.

Know that Japanese Business Culture is different from any other.