[samurai007]

Originally Posted by noodle

@ samurai007

Not legally, but the US practically it did enter the war prior to pearl harbour... You really think the americans would let their ships get sunk without fighting?

In 1941 Britain ran out of money needed to buy arms from the US. But in March the *Lend & Lease Act* was passed, letting the president give away unlimited amounts of arms for free to allies.

In June 1941 US forces occupied Iceland, which you should know was close to the "danger zone"/"comabt zone". But German submarines got the strict order *NOT to use force against US ships*.

On 5th of September a US destroyer was told about a German submarine in the area by a british plane and immediately attacked the sub, which by the way, escaped. The US president remained silent at first, because the incident had been provoked by the US but on 11th September he ordered the US Navy to attack any german vessel as soon as they see it, "practically" declaring war on Germany.

On 17th September US warships started to escort the British from America to Iceland where the Royal Navy took over. Since Iceland was right in the middle of the battlefield, US ships soon came under fire. On 16th October submarines attacked a convoy that was escorted by british, american and french warships. 10/11 got killed.

The first US warship to be sunk on 31st October while protecting a british convoy.

Publicly Roosevelt said "he tried to avoid battle, but it begun anyway. History will tell, who fired the first shots."

Privately he said according to Winston Churchill: "I will never declare war, I will make war. If I ask congress to declare war, they will debate the matter for three months."

As you can see legally Germany declared war on the United States on December, but realistically the US declared it on germany in September or sooner.

As for japan a similar strategy was used by the US against Japan and it is one reason the conspiracy theories that the US government had advanced knowledge about the attack on Pearl Harbour. (though, consipiracy theories are just theories, the US government would have been stupid to ignore the signs that were pointing to a Japnese attack on Pearl Harbour, which was a huge tragedy btw, like anything and everything in a war/battle!)


Long story short, the people of USA might not have wanted a war for the reasons you stated, but the president sure did. And he started it unofficialy until Pearl Harbour because then the citizans of america fealt under threat for the first time in this war...

All of those actions were defensive in nature, including Iceland and the USS Greer vs the German sub.

UNITED STATES FORCES IN ICELAND
The US Navy

Iceland wanted British forces out of the country as they were afraid that they would become a target for German attacks. Since winter of 1940, the Iceland govt began asking to instead be protected by US forces as they were neutral, and thus less likely to be attacked by Germany. Also, the British liked it because it'd free 20,000 troops stationed there to reinforce their losses in Africa. America was still very hesitant to send troops there, and it took months before events spiraled to the point that it was agreed upon.

The USS Greer had been warned about a German U-boat attacking ships in the area and had picked up and maintained sonar contact on the U-boat for 3 hours without "immediately attacking" the sub, as you put it. They simply watched it, until suddenly the U-boat fired a torpedo at the US ship. The Greer turned sharply and was able to avoid the torpedo, then fired back with depth charges, then avoided a 2nd torpedo, and fired again. The sub then ran away, but that is why FDR said "History will tell, who fired the 1st shots." It was the axis. Yes, we were giving supplies to England, yes, we were trying to protect the geographically important Iceland from invasion, but we did not fire first, they did, at the Greer, at Pearl Harbor, at our merchant vessels, etc.

And I don't think FDR knew about Pearl Harbor. If he had, he could have warned them to expect an attack, and then still have the Japanese make the 1st move, but we'd have been ready for them and lost far fewer ships and men. It would still have been an all-out attack upon our forces sitting in our own harbor, and plenty of cause to go to war.