[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by kunitokotachi

well, first of all I am going to apologize for cursing you out. As you can see all we ended up doing was enter into a shit talking contest and is not leading us any closer understanding the issue at hand which is gender roles in regards to parenting. So like I say again, I humbly apologize for letting it go this far. However, you did come out of left field accusing me of going off on a tangent. Now, yes women are the ones who give birth; I agree. Women also breast feed throughout infancy; well some rather get the baby formula from stores. Now, I am inclined to agree that the bond with a child and it's mother throughout infancy can create some positive reinforcement that would otherwise be missed it had not happened; it seems logical right? Now, it was unfair of you to accuse me of being a psuedo scientist (although I was impressed when you brought that up because I don't think I know many people who would actually know what that means) because you have to understand where I'm coming from. I have learned to stop automatically believing what I see before my eyes and through experience to be the most rational possible explanation for everything. Before my college experience I would have agreed that mothers may produce the best possible much needed positive reinforcement that the child needs. However, although it might be true during infancy what about when the child starts going to grade school. Isn't the parenting role pretty much up for grabs? Couldn't a father from that point on do just as good a job? The reason why peer-reviewed research is so great is because it approaches all possible variables using the scientific method and provides us with empirical validity. Let me ask you these questions then you see where I'm coming from. I hope I am able to explain myself in a coherent manner.

1. What do you say about same sexed couples who are able to raise children just as good or better than those families with the traditional housewife raising the children? For example 2 guys who adopt a child.

2. What do you think about a father who has to raise his child alone because the mother died at childbirth and he is able to do it just as good or better than those families with the traditional housewife?

3. What do you think about the traditional housewife who does an acceptable job of raising her child yet the child still ends up being a criminal or "messed up" for a lack of a better term?

4. What about the single mother problem? Children have a better chance of being successful and nurtured in a two parent family right? So, it isn't just mother power or father power alone right?

As far as Japan's population problem? Japan is already too crowded to begin with. Now, if there population does start decreasing to an extreme point because women want to stop having babies then a solution may be growing test-tube babies in a laboratory.

I humbly apologise as well for being mean to you.

A lot of the points you've raised are valid. From experience and common sense there is no reason to say that a father isn't as good a parent as a mother. Even so these cases are in the minority in the world. People have to rise up, above and beyond whats expected, to take care of children in the best possible way they can in these situations. A single father could do a great job but having a single parent is more or less a worst case scenario for a child.
From experience, common sense and studies i've read its clear to me that in the natural order of things a father instills a worldly ethic into his children. Children will learn what its like "outside" the house from the father. He'll be their role model to how they will deal with people in life and i'm sure plenty of other things.
The mother will instill family values and "togetherness" and other such qualities within her children. She'll be someone (in usual cases) to turn to for perhaps relationship advice or understanding, something like a therapist for her kids.
These are just some examples of how both genders will effect their children and i'm sure there are many other ways.
Of course it doesn't always turn out like this in a lot of cases either but in an "ok" world, this is how it is.
Now for no.1, I personally don't agree with same sex couples bringing up children. This is utter selfishness to me that a child doesn't need. I believe a child needs both sexed parents to have a fair chance at growing up. If there are any cases where a child has been raised in this manner then its yet to be identified in what way this child may have developed and how well he/she has grown up. A same sexed couple may have been able to provide a house and home and raise a child but I don't think they'll do a great job of instilling both what a male and female parenting system has to offer.
For no.2, I believe a father can do a great job at raising kids but he shouldn't have to. The kid will still need values instilled by a "woman" to be able to function in situations that require those values. Where the child picks these up from is then a lottery.
For no.3, a child needs a role model which is the father. This child will look for a role model and is more likely to become "bad" if he/she stays out on the streets, looking to learn about the world from peers or whoever can provide this knowledge. I can personally vouch for this. Being raised by a single mother i've had to go out and learn about the world by myself, making my own mistakes and learning from them. My mother did the best she could, although being principal of her own college made her quite a strict mother at that
What becomes of the child with a different personality though? Not all children in such situations turn out the same.
As for no.4, I believe i've already answered that in the main body of this reply above.

In all cases above it is up to the child how he/she grows up in the end. For example a child without a mother and raised by a father will be great at interacting with people outside the family. However He/She will most likely have a problem keeping a relationship without learning how to love and care for their partner, which I believe is what a mother instills in her kids. It is up to the child and their personality to pursue this knowledge if he/she desires and learn from his/her mistakes.

Originally Posted by Amnell

So, given that these are accurate, I'm wondering... How is a decline of less than .1% a cause for enough concern for a bunch of Gaijin to have a heated argument over the role of Japanese women in their society?

See my point isn't that it effects just Japan. My point is that in Western countries where the population isn't that huge, we have a danger of following the same route. We have almost the same work ethic here in England. Now if over time this work ethic became identical to Japans, (and we're already known as the work-a-holics of Europe) then we'd be in trouble.
I'm just trying to say that such trends and attitudes to work aren't healthy for any society in the long run.