[MMM]

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork

I did not ask for the political grandeur of torture, I asked if there was cases of lasting psychological harm (notice the word potentially, everything has an risk factor)

I am not sure what you mean by "political grandeur of torture". And the fact that Americans have to sign a release acknowledging there is potential permanent psychological harm should answer your question.

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork

Side note, how can you say we gain nothing from waterboaring yet, when all the memos has yet to be released? that said, Abu Zubayda broke after 35 seconds of being waterboarded, because of that they were able to stop an number of terrorists attacks.

It is "bad interrogation. I mean you can get anyone to confess to anything if the torture's bad enough", said former CIA officer Bob Baer.

If Abu Zubaydah broke after 35 seconds, why was he subjected to waterboarding over 80 times?

In March 2009, the Washington Post reported: "In the end, though, not a single significant plot was foiled as a result of Abu Zubaida's tortured confessions, according to former senior government officials who closely followed the interrogations. Nearly all of the leads attained through the harsh measures quickly evaporated, while most of the useful information from Abu Zubaida -- chiefly names of al-Qaeda members and associates -- was obtained before waterboarding was introduced, they said."
[Peter Finn and Joby Warrick, "[Detainee's Harsh Treatment Foiled No Plots]," Washington Post 29 March 2009 p. A1]

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork

I didn't know terrorists get citizen treatment to me, I mean since we are not at war and play nice maybe they won't find our values so offensive. Maybe the rest of there community will give up, and join them in the treatment we offer. That said, I'm not here to debate the "best" method to do things. I'm simply stating my own opinion and trying to slice threw some misconceptions people have about waterboarding.

It's not about getting "citizen treatment". It is about getting "human treatment". If we are going to lower ourselves in this way to abuse the prisoners we capture with waterboarding, sleep deprivation, naked humiliation and other techniques, then what right do we have to say we are "better" than the terrorists we capture?

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork

That said, saying that "torture/waterboarding is simply skipping ahead without all the information.

That said go look up the (some) memos that where recently released

I recommend you do the same.