Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyororin
Actually, I didn`t leave out your last paragraph - nor did I ignore it. Is it impossible for you to imagine that there may be women who would still make the choice without "brainwashing"?
My opinion isn`t that there is a right or wrong choice - In fact, the choice itself doesn`t matter a bit to me. What is important is that there is an opportunity to make a choice. Your choice is up to YOU - the choices of other women should be up to THEM.
Why is it that so many who call themselves "feminists" seem to think that if a woman doesn`t make the choice to go out and do all the same things as a man that she must be brainwashed, oppressed, or have an inferiority complex?
I honestly do not understand where THAT thinking comes from. Are women not intelligent enough to make their own decisions without having to be told which is the "right" one? I find the implications of that in your opinion quite offensive, to be honest.
Should women all suddenly stop doing things they enjoy simply because at some point that was (possibly) part of some oppressive scheme? If a woman loves to cook in her own kitchen, why shouldn`t she continue to do so?
There is nothing I detest more than someone forcing their view of the world and their opinion of what is right on others. That goes for men to women, men to men, women to women, and women to men. Everyone should have the equal opportunity to make their own decisions in life. That is true equality.
I`ll make it very very clear, as you may miss it otherwise - My answer to the question of why a woman would ever choose to take the path YOU consider inferior...
Maybe, just maybe, as hard as it may be for you to imagine... because they actually WANT to take that path. Because they have their own personality, wishes, dreams and desires, and are making decisions to fulfill them.
And, just another small question - when on earth did I ever say anything that could be interpreted as "women choosing not to take a submissive role look at other women as 'not real women'"? The only one who has said that one type of woman or her choice is inferior to another has been you, mercedesjin.
|
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm forcing my opinion on others? Have I not said time and again that this is my OWN PERSONAL OPINION? Have I not said time and again that people are jumping on ME for my opinion? Wouldn't that mean that YOU ARE THE ONES who are FORCING YOUR OPINIONS ON ME?
Why do these women want to take that path? Why is it a part of their personality to stay at home and take care of the house and their husbands? Feminists aren't fighting against these individual women - we're fighting against the system that makes women think that they have a particular role to fulfill. It's the system, in my opinion, that conditions and brainwashes women into thinking that they have a place in this society. Any human being can want many things. If society tells me that, in order to be successful, I must make a lot of money and buy a big house - then gosh darn it, I'm going to want to make a lot of money and buy a big house. If society tells women that, in order to be good wives, they need to stay at home and cook and take care of their husbands - well, then, I'm sure many women will want to do just that.
Conditioning is a state that goes deep into the subconscious. It effects everyone - even to the smallest details, such as someone's favorite color... or, to the larger issues, such as someone preferring a white skin over black skin. It also effects how people perceive their roles in society. In my society, as a black woman, I've been told that I need to stand up for myself constantly. So, gosh darn it, I'll do just that. I've also been told constantly that my place is in the kitchen, cooking for men and cleaning up after men. That's one thing that I decided I wouldn't do. I could have CHOSEN to do it, yes. I would have been HAPPY doing it, yes - because hey, that's what I wanted. I know women who are happy doing just that. I'm not fighting against those women, though. I'm fighting against the system that suggested to us and conditioned us into thinking that we belong in the house, into making us happy acting as housewives because we think that's our only role. When asked, "What do you want to be?" I've seen little girls say, "A mommy." And, when asked if they knew if they could go out and do anything else, I've seen them say no. Sad, right?
A woman can cook. I'm not arguing against that. What I am arguing against is the idea that a woman must cook - only a woman, not a man - because that's her role. Hey, I love cooking. I'll cook for myself and others any day. But I also look towards others - including men - to do the same for me. That's what equality is all about, right? (And, I'm not sure if you know where this conversation stemmed from - but, if you look back a few pages, you'll see that this is all I've been arguing against from the beginning. We were talking about 50-50 relationships. Some thought that one must dominate the other in a relationship for it to work properly.)
As for your opinion, I wasn't talking about the choices women make. I was talking about your opinion, and my opinion, and the opinions on this thread. There are countless opinions, 20 pages worth. So - well, why is it MY opinion that people have jumped on? That's really what I was referring to.
I don't know where you got the impression that many feminists are like that. In my experience, feminists are men and women who fight so that women have the same economic chances as men. In my experience, feminists are men and women who fight ardently against violence against women. I think you have a stereotypical image of a feminist, the type of image processed by oppressors so that people will back away from the idea of equality.
Also, I never said that you said they're not real women. I looked back. I checked. I really did not say that. I was speaking of different societies in general who most certainly do think and feel that way. Right now, I'm in a society that thinks I'm not a real woman for thinking this way. Believe me, if you'd said that to me, I wouldn't have responded so calmly.