[bELyVIS]

Originally Posted by mercedesjin

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I'm forcing my opinion on others? Have I not said time and again that this is my OWN PERSONAL OPINION? Have I not said time and again that people are jumping on ME for my opinion? Wouldn't that mean that YOU ARE THE ONES who are FORCING YOUR OPINIONS ON ME?

Why do these women want to take that path? Why is it a part of their personality to stay at home and take care of the house and their husbands? Feminists aren't fighting against these individual women - we're fighting against the system that makes women think that they have a particular role to fulfill. It's the system, in my opinion, that conditions and brainwashes women into thinking that they have a place in this society. Any human being can want many things. If society tells me that, in order to be successful, I must make a lot of money and buy a big house - then gosh darn it, I'm going to want to make a lot of money and buy a big house. If society tells women that, in order to be good wives, they need to stay at home and cook and take care of their husbands - well, then, I'm sure many women will want to do just that.

Conditioning is a state that goes deep into the subconscious. It effects everyone - even to the smallest details, such as someone's favorite color... or, to the larger issues, such as someone preferring a white skin over black skin. It also effects how people perceive their roles in society. In my society, as a black woman, I've been told that I need to stand up for myself constantly. So, gosh darn it, I'll do just that. I've also been told constantly that my place is in the kitchen, cooking for men and cleaning up after men. That's one thing that I decided I wouldn't do. I could have CHOSEN to do it, yes. I would have been HAPPY doing it, yes - because hey, that's what I wanted. I know women who are happy doing just that. I'm not fighting against those women, though. I'm fighting against the system that suggested to us and conditioned us into thinking that we belong in the house, into making us happy acting as housewives because we think that's our only role. When asked, "What do you want to be?" I've seen little girls say, "A mommy." And, when asked if they knew if they could go out and do anything else, I've seen them say no. Sad, right?

A woman can cook. I'm not arguing against that. What I am arguing against is the idea that a woman must cook - only a woman, not a man - because that's her role. Hey, I love cooking. I'll cook for myself and others any day. But I also look towards others - including men - to do the same for me. That's what equality is all about, right? (And, I'm not sure if you know where this conversation stemmed from - but, if you look back a few pages, you'll see that this is all I've been arguing against from the beginning. We were talking about 50-50 relationships. Some thought that one must dominate the other in a relationship for it to work properly.)

As for your opinion, I wasn't talking about the choices women make. I was talking about your opinion, and my opinion, and the opinions on this thread. There are countless opinions, 20 pages worth. So - well, why is it MY opinion that people have jumped on? That's really what I was referring to.

I don't know where you got the impression that many feminists are like that. In my experience, feminists are men and women who fight so that women have the same economic chances as men. In my experience, feminists are men and women who fight ardently against violence against women. I think you have a stereotypical image of a feminist, the type of image processed by oppressors so that people will back away from the idea of equality.

Also, I never said that you said they're not real women. I looked back. I checked. I really did not say that. I was speaking of different societies in general who most certainly do think and feel that way. Right now, I'm in a society that thinks I'm not a real woman for thinking this way. Believe me, if you'd said that to me, I wouldn't have responded so calmly.

Who here has forced opinions on you? It is the opposite if you ask me (and probably others here).
Let's see, I cook (better than my wife), clean, believe in equal pay and opportunities for women, am I a feminist? No, you called me a sexist because I believe that women overcompensating (look that up) for equal rights have caused the breakdown of the traditional American (not Western, take note other person) marriage. I spend much of my time trying to undo my wife's "conditioning" of feeling inferior to a man. Does this sound like a sexist? I guess I am then. All I know is my wife is happy and I am happy.
You call me a racist for stating that I liked how Asian women treated me over American women. Last time I checked America was made up of many races and I dated different ones and was married before to an American (yes, she was white) woman and was not happy because I was never treated as an equal partner. This was her "conditioning" that she was more equal than me. So to you this was racist and then you decided to bring your skin color into it and because of your feeling (your conditioning) of inferiority you lashed out at me, and others, and accused us of being racist against you. No one here ever said anything about your being black made you any less important than any of us.
If anything, you are a racist for using your skin color as a method to get your opinion across. Did you know I have black relatives in my family tree, not just married but blood relatives? My family have been anti-racist for many years and have gotten more heartache for this than you can imagine. If you think blacks have a tough time now, try being married to a black person in the 1920's. I admire my relatives for having such guts, some were executed in Germany for speaking out against the treatment of the Jews during WWII.
Many people have had much worse times than you. They stuck to what they felt was right but didn't have the rights, like you enjoy today, to say much less force their opinion on anyone.
You really need to take a hard look at yourself. Do you really believe being so judgmental wins over anyone to your way of thinking? No is what I think.
BTW, I do marriage/relationship as well as other personal problems counselling. Scary who they allow to mess with your head just for me taking some extra college classes, isn't it?