[solemnclockwork]

Originally Posted by Salvanas

The mother COULD be a saint, but seriously, be realistic. Apart from a rape victim, or someone who had taken precautions but a mistake (like condom split) happened, how MANY teenage mothers do you really think are saints, and not just slags?

I'm understanding Solemn, that you don't live in the UK. If you did. You'd understand what I'm talking about.

That was not the point and not the direction of that saying. I was referring to children growing up and being bad to society. That it did not matter who raised them, and they made that decision.

What about me not living in the UK? How does that relate to what where talking about? If you don't think I "understand" your situation them please tell

Originally Posted by Salvanas

When I have the time, I will.

Wait, you have time to post you have time to read them. It shouldn't take over 3 minutes.

Originally Posted by Salvanas

It wasn't based in "my" logic. If I had said that an IDEAL environment was based around status, or money, then you could have used that. But at the point, you didn't know what I meant about ideal. so how was it based in my logic?

That is the key word ideal and one you did not elaborate until AFTER I posted. More to the point you said satisfying life. It's a generality that depends on the person point of view what a satisfying life means to them. Hence why I posted such a question.

Originally Posted by Salvanas

You can't clearly, ofcourse. But if you sit down, and look at the mother, and the father and their families, you can tell. I've seen pregnant teenagers here in the UK, who's parents are the most disgusting people I've met. This is excluding on how the parents of the baby were like. By looking at the family you can tell a lot.

Contradiction. You first say you can't clearly, then you say you can which one it is? Your guessing at best by looking at the people involved. There cases of people who where "bad" before then having a child they clean up there habits, and vice versa.

Originally Posted by Salvanas

The child has no say in it, because it is not alive. Simple as. It is up to the parents to judge.

That is another subjective answer. Here's some more reading for you.

Memory Forms at 30 Weeks in the Womb: MedlinePlus
ABC Recognizes Survival of 21-Week Baby 'May Change What People Think About Life' | NewsBusters.org

Originally Posted by Salvanas

And yes, some younger women HAVE. But that's mainly a minority. Minorities don't count.

Minorities don't count!? Well I guess blacks, Asians, Latinos don't count as having a voice in your opinion.

Of course minorities count. They are still there are they not?

Originally Posted by Salvanas

Personally, unless we have this crisis that knocks off 50% of our population, I don't see this ever becoming to be again. We need women who are ready, and who are mature to have kids, reproducing. not teenagers.

Don't dodge the paragraph.

Originally Posted by Salvanas

Problem is. They have no say, until they are old enough to think and speak. Until then, it's the parents choice.

It's called being a depended. That said, read that part again. I was not refering to children in terms of them deciding how valuable there current life is, but people (like some on this very thread) valuing there own life!

Originally Posted by Salvanas

Mate. You don't need to tell me that life is not fair and shit.

Apparently I do, it's part of the cornerstone of this argument and one you keep denying. You keep saying that a child who does not have the right environment deserves not to live, to which NOT everyone going to be blessed with that.

Originally Posted by Salvanas

But, you fail to understand, that even if life is not fair, that there are some things we can control. And this is one of them.

by population control? Telling someone you have the right to live and you do not?

Originally Posted by Salvanas

Again, you're just making stupid assumptions, and taking words from me and warping them. It's not about the money, it's not about the nationality, it's not about the bloody relationships between the parents. It's about their ATTITUDE.

? explain how this relates to what I'm saying. Also show where I was warping your words please.

Originally Posted by Salvanas

Unlike you. I don't look at it as if it's only one human life. I'm looking at the whole picture. It's not just about the babies life. It's about how it will effect everyone else's life around the baby too.

I addressed this. Let for say argument sake, take Obama and say his mother aborted him when he was younger, what effect would you think that would have on America? What about for say Albert Einstien? What about Hilter? I'm not looking at a snapshot of someone life. that said, how much burden are you saying a child brings upon the family?

Originally Posted by Salvanas

Although I care for the babies feelings to a point, there are bigger things in the picture. And the baby would be the least of my worrys.[/color][/size][/font]

So Human life is a minor? A child has no value?