[mercedesjin]

Originally Posted by MMM

If blacks are "disabled" by slavery (your words) then why are there as many whites as there are on welfare? If whites don't have the slavery excuse, then what is their excuse?

Oh, was that your question? I'm sorry. I didn't answer it because I felt that we'd already discussed the issue that there aren't as many white people on welfare. If you have statistics to show otherwise, then of course show them.

That's the second time you said that. I think it might be better to source that very powerful accusation.

Welfare: Help or hindrance? - by Angela S. Young - Helium

So certain words are allowed to change meaning, and certain words are not?
Who gets to decide what words are allowed to transform generation to generation, and what words must be chained their own history?

Everyone does - everyone who can come forth with a legitimate reason why such a word is wrong and racist, and everyone who fights for the change they want to see. If no one did anything about "nigger" or "Jap" they would still be used today, and considered acceptable. I suppose that, if one were to get annoyed over the fact that "caucasian" and "negro" and all other such words are politically incorrect, then they should also get annoyed about the fact that "nigger" and "Jap" are politically incorrect. After all, they come from the same root: racism.

Many people say "I'm sorry but I think that is wrong". That is disingenuous and a poor use of English. That's why I said "I won't apologize." I am not sorry. That's just a semantic point. You are race baiting again...searching for something that isn't there. I am not sorry because I do not feel guilty.

I am sorry you wasted your time addressing an assumption about me that is false.

Then I'm sorry for my false assumption.

Ah yes, the shouting. It's been doing so much good lately to fuel good communication about health care reform.

Er - not sure what this has to do with anything, but I'm going to come back and edit/answer the rest in an hour or two.

EDIT: Okay. Back. Shouting, sometimes, is the only way to ensure that people can hear what you have to say.

Originally Posted by MMM

A page and a half into that article the writer had lost all credibility with me.

I think it is worth repeating, it is a laundry list of excuses for blacks to keep themselves exactly where they are.

Where is the laundry list of plans to get out of that mess? Those are the articles we should be sharing. Japanese-Americans were imprisoned just for being Japanese...almost all of them...and yet that is a group that hasn't wallowed in their own tears. And many of the Japanese who were imprisoned in internment camps in WWII are still alive today. THEY can talk about the painful memories of being locked up and without freedom, of losing their homes and businesses (George Takei is one famous example). But for blacks today to wrap themselves in the "painful memories" of slavery is nothing more than self-pity.

You constantly brush-aside Belyvis's notion of taking control of your own fate, but that's exactly what the Japanese-Americans did. That's exactly what millions of blacks have done in this country, including our president.

So if you don't take control of your own fate, you leave it in the hands of others.

You can shout all you want, but action and self-direction have gotten people, individuals and groups, a heck of a lot further.

I think it's interesting that, when I've provided voices other than mine, you simply will not listen. That's fine. Not everyone wants to listen. At this point, though, I also don't want to repeat myself. If you're simply going to disagree with me for the sake of disagreeing, then what's the point of this discussion?

That essay never said that the black population will never be able to pull themselves out again. That article simply gives a list of the basic struggles many face WHILE bringing themselves out of the darkness. To ignore the struggles they face is, to me, ignorant.

Slavery is something that has had a negative effect on our society. No, none of us can speak of slavery. Most of us can talk about the negative effects. Many of us can talk about the psychological distress of racism, of not being able to use the same facilities, of being physically abused for the color of their skin. That's something you conveniently ignored.

Like I've said many times, I'm not trying to compare the black race to any other race on this planet. God, yes the Japanese have been through a lot. They fought. They survived. They still deal with racism today. That's one issue. Now, we're talking about the issue of racism black people face. I'm not sure why bringing up one topic of racism is something thought to be compared to another topic of racism. Is it because we're all people of color, and therefore all of our histories and struggles must be the same?

I don't brush aside anyone's ideas. I ignore the blatant flaming. Did he suggest that I ought to take control of my own future? Because believe me, I do. That's what I'm doing right now, despite the many people who are trying to hold me down and tell me that my ideas and opinions are wrong. I'm fighting back. I'm talking through it. I'm learning, and I'm loving it. That's just one example of the many ways I've taken my life into my own hands. I'm sorry you assumed that I'm the type of person who doesn't. I guess, because you think that I'm black, I'm just "trying to pull the race card."

I'm curious - you mentioned the president. Care to elaborate on him?