[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

What do you think I'm stupid? That's what I meant. Yes, it's the transformation. Whatever; point is, each transformation turns it into a new product that is a biproduct of the last event. You can trace them back.

You used that as an argument against my post about the creator.

Time and space can be taken away (or, in your view, taken away to be recycled, but it still is an end to existence as we know it). They are physical things. Try and shove that brick through your ear and you should understand.

Upon taking them away, that matter that continuously recycles in the physical world transforms into something else. I'm not arrogant enough to guess what, exactly, but.

It's up to you to use your brain that at some point in time, there was no time. If you think eternity stretches in both directions, that's up to you, but it makes you just another believer, same as religous folk.

What do you think I'm stupid? That's what I meant. And no, religious folks have a book to back them up... to build up my theory I base on science. Whether you can see the difference is up to you.

We're unable to answer that. We're not smart enough. Our brains were made to cut wood, carry water, not mentally reconstruct the most pure manner of existence that's ever existed. We've about us much chance of figuring this answer out as a buffalo does.

Yet we're smart enough to say such an entity exists?

Well, if there was a state where there was no time and space, thus no eternity for things to be recycled in, then when the first big bang occured, it must have been triggered by something.

I mean, shit don't just magically explode one day; bombs have detonators or timers, "God".

Don't get me wrong, I think these religous nuts are as crazy as Ronin is, just like you. But I'm trying to show you there may be elements that are beyond your understanding, and it's foolish to be so damn conclusive.

I view the thing that triggered the big bang to just be another elemental thing, rather than a concious being. I mean, conciousness requires time in order to plot and be self aware in. This is unrealistic thing to think about God (which should replace your question "Who created God?" with "Who created the time that God sat in in order to think about creating time?" See? Religous folk are dumb, but not much more than you). He could be no more concious than fire or water. At the same time, there's really little we do know about it; however, to simply assume no spiritual element at all is involved is also arrogance.

Using 'you're dumb' too much won't make your point more valid. You're actually comparing Big Bang to a detonator o.O! Worse, you say that God didn't exist in this dimension so he doesn't need to be created. Following your logic everything that was before this dimension doesn't need a creator (unless you now add a new rule that only God is an exception which is what religious folks do and it's completely illogical) for Big Bang, it was the reason this dimension was created, but it wasn't in it in the start. Why this one needs a creator?

Can I ask you a question; what's the difference between you and your computer? I mean, we could programme a computer to constantly ponder it's an individual, but you know it wouldn't be the same, would it? There's an element inside you beyond a simple mental trigger to say you're an individual; there's something that makes your conciousness more valid than a robot would ever be. What is it?

I don't get why you brought this up.