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clintjm (Offline)
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11-16-2009, 07:35 AM

[quote=MMM;783012]
"Quote:Originally Posted by MMM
I think the idea that your weight is something that you yourself are the master of needs to come back to the surface.

Many companies thrive by paying people to meet goals and punishing for not meeting goals. We learn those standards in grade school.

Why do we pretend personal health is something we have no control over, when it is the one thing we probably have the most control over in our lives?


Quote:Originally Posted by MMM
clint, do you think people should have the right to engage in dangerously unhealthy behavior that ends up costing everyone more money (in higher insurance rates and medical costs)?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post
It's not the opposite. One is a statement and one is a question (which I don't think you answered). How are they opposite?
You stated earlier in the thread that weight is something one should be the master of and that personal health is within one's control. Yet in the second statement/QUESTION (splitting hairs here) you question why should anyone have the right to be the master of their weight if its unhealthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post
If TV, pornography, video games, Internet, tea or any of the other things you talked about were proven direct contributing factors to America's increasing obesity and unhealthiness, and was contributing to increased health costs for all Americans, then I would say yes, let's tax them to to balance the problem.
Just tax anything that can become addictive... because addictions are unhealthly... eventually we won't be able to afford anything and sugar, coffee, internet, fun will be only for the elite. Gotta pay for the guy or gal that just wants to die happy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post
Your argument about insurance would work if everyone was insured. The fact is the worst offenders don't even have insurance, and don't pay a dime for the 10s and 100s of thousands of dollars spent on them in health care individually every year. They use the emergency room, and don't pay the bills. So then the hospital jacks up the prices so a trip to the ER starts at $300 for walking in the door. (Add another $750 if you took an ambulance there.) The insurance companies are now paying for the people that don't pay bills, so what do they do? Increase insurance rates every year. What is the result? Fewer people can afford health insurance. People drop out of programs, so what happens? Rates go up. 20% a year in some programs. Every year. Much higher than inflation, and much higher than raises or cost of living.
You are driving this way out of proportion. Let the ones who destroy themselves or refuse to help take responsibility fail. Getting the 5%-15% of the population insured on a government plan or crushing the private insurnace industry won't solve the problem of the cost of health care. Tort reform and cutting government waist in programs like medicare and medicade will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post
How long do we want this downward spiral to continue?
When we finally just stop nannying everyone and taxing ourselves into obilvion for those who refuse to take personal responsibilty.

We are not talking about crack here... we're talking about cupcakes and common sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post
Clint, you keep using "slippery slope" arguments, and it isn't really working.
Seems to be working fine for me...
You just keep slipping on them.

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Originally Posted by MMM View Post
Taking gasoline helps pay for highway and road maintenance.
gasoline:
Funny, I though my state taxes did that..
Anyway I just thought it odd why you threw that into the stack of addictive items that are bad for your health... seemed a little out of sorts. Seemed more like a save energy...spew

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post
Where I live the taxes for cigarettes helps pay for treatments for smoking-related diseases (especially for people who can't afford the treatments).
yeahh.. for those people that just didn't know smoking was bad for them and neither was that second cheeseburger..



Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post
The increasing taxes also make smoking less attractive, especially for young people. When i was in high school cigarettes were about $1.50 a pack. Now they are about $5.00. By eliminating the high schooler market you are eliminating the future cost of paying for these people 30 years down the line when smoking is killing them.
Soooo... lets make a cheeseburger $10? Instead of a dollar?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post
Taxes on liquor pay for alcohol rehabilitation programs.
These taxes, for the most part, aren't preventing people access, but what they do is provide assistance when their vice gets the best of them. Why that wouldn't be applied to 100% non-healthy items like candy bars and cola is confusing to me. Like whiskey or cigarettes, cola is a luxury item.
I don't want to pay for someone else's problem though. Let the person who doesn't want to help themselves or is lazy JUST FAIL. I don't want to spend an extra $5 for <insert delicious item> or 20% markup on <insert any luxury item>

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post
It cannot be argued there are any healthful benefits to drinking cola, or that taxing it a few cents a can would be preventative in allowing people to drink it. However, that tax could go directly to programs that help overweight folks or diabetics with their problems.
Is obesity a disease? Excluding hormone disorders...
Diabetics are not all there because of eating disorders or poor diet.
Why do we need programs to tell people not to take that second piece of cake? This is stuff we learn in grade school.

Anyway what you speak of is already in place in some states where food items are non-tax but candy and soda are taxable items. Funny thing is... when they pay with foodstamps... those items become non-taxable again hehehe those genius government programs.

http://www.olivierandassociates.com/...S_U-4_0503.pdf

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM View Post

Just because something is a government program doesn't mean is it is a black hole of wasted money.
Not last I checked. And to be sure the trillion dollar health care plan will be to the all of end all if it passes... yet...of course we will still tax the crop out of things though.

Anyone ever heard of the boston tea party?
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