[MMM]

Originally Posted by clintjm

"Quote:Originally Posted by MMM
I think the idea that your weight is something that you yourself are the master of needs to come back to the surface.

Many companies thrive by paying people to meet goals and punishing for not meeting goals. We learn those standards in grade school.

Why do we pretend personal health is something we have no control over, when it is the one thing we probably have the most control over in our lives?


Quote:Originally Posted by MMM
clint, do you think people should have the right to engage in dangerously unhealthy behavior that ends up costing everyone more money (in higher insurance rates and medical costs)?"

Originally Posted by clintjm

You stated earlier in the thread that weight is something one should be the master of and that personal health is within one's control. Yet in the second statement/QUESTION (splitting hairs here) you question why should anyone have the right to be the master of their weight if its unhealthy.

No, I do not think you are splitting hairs, and I think you raise a good point.

On one hand, as Americans, we feel like we should have the right to do whatever the hell we want to do as long as we are not directly hurting anyone else.

The problem is that this way of thinking, I think, is a little short-sighted.

But to address your point, like I said, I think personal weight is something people in the US SHOULD think of something they have control over. The irony is that in a country where personal freedoms are so religiously protected, some Americans turn around and say they are victims of the food they put in their mouths. There is the "rub" as we say, and, as we also say "you can't have your cake and eat it, too," though cake eating is hardly an extinct sport in America.

So given the freedom to stuff their faces, what is the result? You know the answer as well as I, and as the negative attributes of alcohol and nicotine have resulted in essentially "sin taxes", the same will eventually happen the modern day legal vice of unhealthy food. It's just a matter of time.

Originally Posted by clintjm

Just tax anything that can become addictive... because addictions are unhealthly... eventually we won't be able to afford anything and sugar, coffee, internet, fun will be only for the elite. Gotta pay for the guy or gal that just wants to die happy.

Is your argument that addictions are healthy? Again, slippery slope arguments kill. We are talking about disease-inducing fatty foods. Not "fun".

Originally Posted by clintjm

You are driving this way out of proportion.

I am not the one doing "slippery slope" arguments.

Originally Posted by clintjm

Let the ones who destroy themselves or refuse to help take responsibility fail.

That would be awesome if they didn't demand help and we lived in a society where people without insurance were allowed to die on gurneys in waiting rooms because they couldn't afford care.

Originally Posted by clintjm

Getting the 5%-15% of the population insured on a government plan or crushing the private insurnace industry won't solve the problem of the cost of health care. Tort reform and cutting government waist in programs like medicare and medicade will.

When private insurance company executives are paid less than a million dollars a year in "bonuses" then I will say they are cutting waste. Some presidents have made hundreds of millions in their short careers. Trust me, no Medicare or Medicaid official is making anything like that. Why? Because they are not "for-profit" organizations. Please, go ahead and fight to end Medicare or Medicaid, but ask someone who is using it first. For the most part these are government healthcare programs that work for the people that are using them. Perfect? No. But does that mean they should be eliminated? Can you imagine what would happen if Medicare and Medicaid were eliminated tomorrow?

Originally Posted by clintjm

When we finally just stop nannying everyone and taxing ourselves into obilvion for those who refuse to take personal responsibilty.

We are not talking about crack here... we're talking about cupcakes and common sense.

Sadly, those that eat so many cupcakes don't have common sense in the way you and I see it.

Originally Posted by clintjm

gasoline:
Funny, I though my state taxes did that..
Anyway I just thought it odd why you threw that into the stack of addictive items that are bad for your health... seemed a little out of sorts. Seemed more like a save energy...spew

I threw Gasoline in as something people use every day that is taxed. Not as something that is bad for your health.

Originally Posted by clintjm

yeahh.. for those people that just didn't know smoking was bad for them and neither was that second cheeseburger..





Soooo... lets make a cheeseburger $10? Instead of a dollar?

No, let's make it $1.25. That $0.25 can pay for lots of bypass surgeries.

Originally Posted by clintjm

I don't want to pay for someone else's problem though. Let the person who doesn't want to help themselves or is lazy JUST FAIL. I don't want to spend an extra $5 for <insert delicious item> or 20% markup on <insert any luxury item>

Dude, welcome to reality. You are paying for it. I am paying for it.

Let's turn it backwards. I don't want to pay for anything. What happens? Nothing. Do you want someone to answer when you dial 911? Do you want a cop to come when you are robbed? Do you want an ambulance to arrive if you are hurt? Do you want a hospital to be there if you are sick? Do you want a fire department to be there if your house is on fire?

If the answer is "no" to all of these questions, then your point is fully made. However, if you are not willing to give up these services you will understand the need to look at WHO is using these services at exponentially larger rates than those who are living more healthy lives.

Does taxing unhealthy lifestyles seem so crazy now?