[Columbine]

Originally Posted by xyzone

Exactly. The trouble with daring to state this fact is there's always someone who will jump in assuming it has anything to do with personal preference. Also, there's always exceptions to anything, but that's not what we're talking about. To deny women like aggressive jerks is like denying guys like boobs; it wouldn't matter how many goofballs jumped in to chime in how they prefer women's feet.

I'd say it's more social than you're trying to portray. This phenomenon is recent; the last 100 years or less- the human body hasn't evolved that much in that time. Jerks often appear confident and charming; that's appealing, not the bad behavior. They're also more likely to approach women and try it on; they're more likely to act deceitfully and hide their real thoughts about women until after they've hooked one in. Sometimes the women see right through it but it becomes a misplaced salvation thing; "If I act how he wants and love him enough, he'll change and be nice to me" It's not just about some women preferring jerks, it's about jerks being more predatory in their initial dating techniques.

Originally Posted by xyzone

You mean the armies of sitcoms and TV shows that show marriages and people staying married? Everyone is married and staying that way because TV said so. Never mind the truth that about half of marriages end in divorce - and rising. Of course, even when divorce does happen in happyland, it's just that "it didn't work out" and is the most normal thing in the world. It's like a high school break up. Move on and start dating again while the kids dress you and give you dating tips. All's well.

I concede I didn't really explain that properly or think it quite through. It's not really about marriage in the media per se; but there IS a general perception and a huge all-encompassing pressure from the media that girls need to act in certain ways to attract men; but those ways (forms of dress and so forth) tend to only attract certain types of men, generally those looking for sex and perhaps not much else. Jerks, in short. So they cave to those pressures, attract jerks and the intention only reinforces the problem. You say that men are brainwashed, well so are women.

Originally Posted by xyzone

Maybe those women you know take what they can get. Most people do. Because it's funny how the women with the most options, the cheerleader models, etc., strangely, we never see them with "nice guys". Never happens. We see them with aggressive "jerks". Not to mention the fact that I never said women consciously seek sex-based relationships to get used. They fall into them due to being physically attracted to jerks.

Oh, that's wonderful. I love the assumptions here. All I said that most of the women I knew were looking for decent guys, perhaps I should have mentioned that a fair proportion of them have also been successful. I love how you seem to automatically assume that the people I know who make such choices must be desperate singles, insecure, perhaps not physically attractive or successful, emotionally fulfilled people. And I love how you assume the decent guys they are seeking (and dating) must be EXACTLY the same, because of course, any man who is decent is therefore a physically unattractive looser. Or a rich nerd.

Originally Posted by xyzone

Besides that, personal bubbles don't really prove anything and I never presumed to say my personal experience alone proves anything I said. We could have a war of he said she said, or we could look at tangible data instead, like the divorce rate and the amount of single mothers. The fact those single mothers were attracted to jerks is strongly evident if not obvious.

Where? Where's the data that says "Single mothers only date jerks"? If anything, single mothers tend to be MORE picky about their partner's behavior; particularly if they intend to introduce them to their kids. If they aren't, then they have some deep-seated problem and shouldn't be jeopardizing their children's welfare by exposing them to such people.

Originally Posted by xyzone

All facts. Party girls become some old guy's or some dumb, yet successful nerd's trophy wife once she had her fill of hot jerk guys.

But why are these women suddenly the poster face of ALL women. That's my issue with your comments; a lot of women despise behaviour like this just as much as men do; especially when it's used to represent all of us as a whole so thoughtlessly. I'm sick of being told women only want abusive and/or solely sexual relationships (and let's face it, that's what dating a jerk IS), and that if we say otherwise, we're either lying, deluded, too stupid to know better, skanky gold-diggers trying to cover up our shame or conversely desperate or prudish.

Originally Posted by xyzone

Again I ask, why is a legal contract necessary to "reaffirm" love? And do you ignore the divorce rate and the fate of men in most divorces? They lose.

It isn't; but then no one is arguing that it IS. Just that it has a place in society and people who want to marry and believe in it as an important part of their relationship shouldn't be told they're stupid. The problem isn't marriage; it's the number of people in bad relationships thinking it's an easy fix for their problems. Or being pressured into it for the wrong reasons. I don't think it's fair for men to always get the short end of the stick in divorce proceedings, and I do think that should be changed, and I think there should be more protection for both sides so that no one gets financially devastated by a divorce. At the same time, I think it's a little naive to expect there to ever be a 50-50 split of men and women taking on the children as the main custodian. There are always going to be more women taking the children.