[xyzone]

Originally Posted by Columbine

I'd say it's more social than you're trying to portray. This phenomenon is recent; the last 100 years or less- the human body hasn't evolved that much in that time. Jerks often appear confident and charming; that's appealing, not the bad behavior. They're also more likely to approach women and try it on; they're more likely to act deceitfully and hide their real thoughts about women until after they've hooked one in. Sometimes the women see right through it but it becomes a misplaced salvation thing; "If I act how he wants and love him enough, he'll change and be nice to me" It's not just about some women preferring jerks, it's about jerks being more predatory in their initial dating techniques.

Regardless, this jerk/confident behavior, whatever you want to call it is what women inherently find attractive. I was never arguing conscious decision, as in what women say they want, somebody "charming", for one. This is what "nice guys" are trying to be and failing at.

I concede I didn't really explain that properly or think it quite through. It's not really about marriage in the media per se; but there IS a general perception and a huge all-encompassing pressure from the media that girls need to act in certain ways to attract men; but those ways (forms of dress and so forth) tend to only attract certain types of men, generally those looking for sex and perhaps not much else. Jerks, in short. So they cave to those pressures, attract jerks and the intention only reinforces the problem. You say that men are brainwashed, well so are women.

Hey, I agree with you, with your general point. But I can best speak from the male perspective, so as such can only advise other young men on what strategy to adopt.

Oh, that's wonderful. I love the assumptions here. All I said that most of the women I knew were looking for decent guys, perhaps I should have mentioned that a fair proportion of them have also been successful. I love how you seem to automatically assume that the people I know who make such choices must be desperate singles, insecure, perhaps not physically attractive or successful, emotionally fulfilled people. And I love how you assume the decent guys they are seeking (and dating) must be EXACTLY the same, because of course, any man who is decent is therefore a physically unattractive looser. Or a rich nerd.

No, my point was that we could just speculate forever and reach no ultimate truth in this. We have to work with what we know first.

Where? Where's the data that says "Single mothers only date jerks"?

Most single mothers, esp. in the case of never-married single mothers, it can't be assumed are making wise, conscious decisions. This bracket better represents people acting on more instinct than thought. This trend of single mothers is rising higher among the lower classes than anywhere else. If you want to argue these single mothers are making thoughtful choices that turned out to be mistakes, that's fine, but I don't see that as having much impact.

If anything, single mothers tend to be MORE picky about their partner's behavior; particularly if they intend to introduce them to their kids. If they aren't, then they have some deep-seated problem and shouldn't be jeopardizing their children's welfare by exposing them to such people.

In most of the cases of single mothers, this would seem like merely tremendous rationalizing.

But why are these women suddenly the poster face of ALL women.

Never said it was. I wasn't focusing on hating women, even if it looks that way to some. My focus is on advising the male perspective on a real and very significant trend.

It isn't; but then no one is arguing that it IS.

Well, MMM and Nyororin seem to be, for one.