[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

It is good to see you want to bring a discussion from another thread here from the get-go.

Excuse me?

Originally Posted by MMM

But I have already answered the question you are asking.

So would your Japanese wife appreciate you wearing a shirt making fun of her accent and mistakes in English?

Sure making fun with the right friends or one's spouse can be done.

"I think I'll stetch my leg".
"don't you think you want to stretch them both?"

It is wrong in our book to not correct each other, else how would we learn.
A little humor in between doesn't hurt.
However I wouldn't advice this approach to a stranger or student by direct correction at the time of fault. Having it posted on a T-shirt is a different thing.

Again like the "I'm with Stupid" T-shirt. Just bad taste.

Originally Posted by MMM

I have asked this question in three ways now on this thread, but no one wants to answer it.

English speakers that speak Japanese do not make fun of Japanese speakers of English. Why? Because they know how hard the other language is.

It is people that don't speak a word of Japanese that find humor in making fun of native Japanese speakers' accents. The stereotypes promoted on this shirt are based on ignorance, not education.

This is true but friends or the spouse does; more so with an accent, but still in the end its only out wanting the other to improve. We usually get a laugh out of it.

No, I think the T-shirt DID get the sterotype correct. The "The" and "L and R" issues are real problems that most Japanese have to overcome with English.

I see where you are coming from though on this point, as one without knowledge of the Japanese language may think they are just stupid leaving "the" out, problem with plurals, "L and R". But for anyone to think this is from stupidity or ignorance show that persons ignorance. By putting some thought into it, one can conclude it stems from a difference between the languages though.

Originally Posted by MMM

So turnabout is fair play? They are racist against us, so we have a right to be racist against them? That seems like a good strategy to eliminate racism.

Seriously ... you are taking this to the extreme. There isn't any racism here.

Originally Posted by MMM

Wow. I have to say it again?

No.

Calling it "innate" is.
Crap. I have to explain it again. It says Japanese are too stupid to understand "the" but are "innately" calculators.

You don't see the problem with that?

Innate or not, again in one part they are saying they are sterotypically smart and the other sterotypically dumb. If the innate part is true, then that makes the rest of the world innately stupid towards math.

I assume "innately calculators" means born well at math; which anyone knows no one race is born well at anything. This can go back to physical traits of the race where black races were once thought to be better at particular sports. So if anyone states that anyone is born with calculus in their genes it is obvious that they are the one that are ignorant.

Again you are reading way too much into it. Its an exaggaration. Its like saying "born to swim" "born to run" "born to ride".

Originally Posted by MMM

Oh, now I am the a-hole for stereotyping?

At least you admit stereotyping Americans on that point.
No you are not and a-hole, but just pointing out you were sterotyping while demonizing the shirt for the samething.

Originally Posted by MMM

engrish.com and those type of websites are one thing, but to whitewash a race, a country, a continent... is something different. Engrish.com (etc.) gives specific examples of English mistakes found in Asia. That is a little different than saying a Japanese person could not pronounce "parallel" "to save his life".
So how would you feel to see someone wearing a t-shirt pointing that out specifically?
I know how I would feel. Not so great.

Engrish with the R instead of the L is the same point on the t-shirth.
Its the same thing.

Most people that would read a shirt like that not knowing the Japanese language differences wouldn't get the joke, the one that would understand the joke would probably laugh because it happens often. Most Japanese I know would too. Most people I know laugh about the hurdles and silliness of things they can't do. The ones that don't feel so great will most likely continue to practice to correct their issue.

Its a different thing if the shirt was talking directly to someone with this problem and was laughing at them for it, but it isnt; because its just a shirt. Even if one would laugh at them for it, it just shows the one laughing in a lower light.

Originally Posted by MMM

If it is racist, then it is hurtful. That is a matter of course.

This isn't racist though. Stereotyping at worst and basically showing Japanese language difference with English.

Originally Posted by MMM

How in the world of logic can you compare Mr. Baseball, Gung-Ho, and Lost in Translation to the dehumanizing comments of a t-shirt with less than 100 words?

Really, please.

My pleasure: All three movies have the following in common: Japanese Cultural and Language Stereotypes played on the big screen in comical fashion. All three had Japanese language stereotypes all through it phonetically and grammatically with some screwed up idioms. The "the" and "r and L" "good at math" points on the shirt played to these same comical routines in these movies.

Originally Posted by MMM

We are going to play the Nazi game? Really? That's when the argument just ends.

Oh PPPPLLLEEEASESE MMM.

Originally Posted by MMM

I can't say this shirt is Nazism...so therefore it has redeemable values? No....

This shirt is racist and just not funny. I would be ashamed of anyone I knew who wore it in Japan or in the West.

It is sad that people would actually pay money to promote the outdated and misinformed stereotypes shown here in the guise of "humor".

Guess you didn't like those three movies either. Would you be surprised that all three of those movies have played in Japan with moderate success and not being banned.

The come back to anyone seriously trying to put a Japanese person with these English language problems is always "oh, so you are fluent in Japanese?" Again, no one is going to do that.... because it would make them a hypocrite or just a mean Japanese language fluent non-Japanese.

Many Japanese co-workers I know have laughed quietly at another Japanese when they have to speak English to a customer etc because they thought it was bad. Sometimes, the speaker included will laugh, and sometimes this just eggs him on to practice more; in any case he accepts his faults as we all have to. Its not that the co-worker is stupid, they just aren't as gifted as another Japanese in Language and phonetics as another. Some say Women are better at languages than men in general....
anyway my point is, most Japanese would probably chuckle or agree a bit in their head if they were to read the shirt points on "the" and "r and l"; and maybe at some others.

Why would a Japanese person care what a foriegner that doesn't truely get the attempt at humor on the shirt thinks?

Thinking of buying the coffee mug now.
Nah..