[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by clintjm

Over 25 odd years? you were breaking noses back in kindergarden? 3 or 4? Can't remember? Seriously, if I did a full break of a nose or was in an altercation like that, I'd remember it and how many.

Four times that I remember trying to. I am not entirely sure I succeeded in all times. The first did occur while I was at my first elementary school, so that was fourth grade or lower. I think it was in third. But yeah, that was a fair amount of time ago.

Also, I doubt very much you would remember details about fights that occurred decades before. Human memory, especially childhood memory, isn't that good. You're being provocative just to be provocative.

Anyway I was just replying to the fact of the first punch situation and the dangers that lie within your approach.

Taking the "first swing" in order to "break a nose" in a "touch me negatively or approach me in a clearly threatening manner" even in a last resort before they may attack isn't wise in any situation unless its *life threatening* - i.e. someone got a serious weapon; in which case even then you don't bring a fist to weapons fight.

*sigh* One does not need a weapon to be a major threat. Let's take one of those examples, the one that occurred in eighth grade. This individual had picked me up and dropped me on a tiled corridor floor on my chin. I was lucky, and so was he. It merely gave me a scar and chipped a bit of bone. He could have broken my neck. He could have killed me. Whether he was trying to or not, and surely, he wasn't, it doesn't matter. The next time he went for me, I broke his nose. He never attacked me again.

I would argue, as I'm sure would my lawyer, that this individual had a history of cornering me, cutting off escape routes, and engaging in assault and battery that could have lead to permanent damage or death. I was well within my rights to use force in response.

I think the advice you give in this case is dangerous, ill-advised, and will not lead to a good end. One with a broken nose make seek a uglier revenge in these crazy days. Also for the reasons in my first post.

Actually, I'm inclined to believe that you are being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Regardless, days were already crazy in the mid and late nineties. Remember Columbine? Didn't that happen in 1997 or 1998? I grant you bring up some excellent concerns, concerns I feel must fall by the wayside when you fear for your life.

I would just hope this isn't something you teach your students if they came to you with such a problem as you advise here. In general that is what you are doing in this forum.

I am not allowed to, and I probably wouldn't consider it my place. The situation has not come up. I have not been privy to much bullying in my classes, and when I see it, I step in.

Remember, my own authority figures never punished me, or not much, for acting when I did. I believe that speaks volumes for my decisions on when to fight back.

I cannot even say it is something I would teach my own kids, since I do not have any.

This, however, is a forum. Somewhere I should feel free to give my opinion. I believe you must draw a line in the sand at some point. You are free to have your own opinions, but do not disparage me for mine. You've made a few good arguments, there is no need to sprinkle personal attacks in with those points. It merely weakens your credibility.

Violence solves nothing in the end. Especially in these bully situations.

I disagree. And already said so. You and I disagree. Let's move on without character assassinations.