Quote:
Originally Posted by coshue
I'm native. The tongue position surely lands in between 4 and 5.
Speaking in detail, it depends on words and situation.
I can pronounce /ra ri ru re ro/ with my tongue landing near the area 6, but when I pronounce them clearly, in most cases, it lands in between 4 and 5.
It is clear that non-natives fail to pronounce if they try to pronounce /ra ri ru re ro/ near the area 6 or beyond (7,8,9).
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I think you will just get a sound like someone swallowing their tongue in the 7, 8 or 9 case.
I'm happy to redraw my diagram but I really would like to see some kind of references. The two pictures of English R and English dark L on the page I quoted (
What is roomaji `r' really? - sci.lang.japan Frequently Asked Questions) are from a book called "The Pronunciation of English" by Daniel Jones, and I believe they were actually made by putting a string of lead beads on somebody's tongue and taking an X ray of the head as they made the sounds.
The book is quite old so maybe that was an acceptable method then, but maybe not now. Perhaps one would use some kind of scanner like a CAT scanner or something. The Japanese R position is something I made based on
Japanese Pronunciation guide for English Speakers using Microsoft Paint to alter one of the pictures from Daniel Jones's book. I think it's about right but if you can give me a better reference or picture I'd be glad to know about it.