[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by TheCrimson

let's make a comparison. you say it's just a product.
so are soccer balls. or shoes.
being put together by 8 year old boys in china.
does that make it ok? well i'm guessing to you it does, cause it's just a product and that's how businesses are run, right? right.
and with those soccerballs/shoes, do they get advertised as "SHOES & SOCCERBALLS, MADE BY 8 YEAR OLDS!" no. so it's a bit of a false advertisement, no?
like what the article mentions. in the CDs they write "written by this band member, yaddi yadda." and in most cases its not true. false advertisement

How do the actions of consenting adults have anything to do with children in forced labor? That comparison only works if 1) 8 year olds working was an accepted thing, and some makers were advertising their shoes as "made by 8 year olds!" or 2) if singing something written by someone else was on the same level of international scorn as child labor. Neither of those are true.
If a company uses child labor and advertises that they do not, the consumer is hurt by this as they are being directly deceived - unlikely to have bought the product if they`d known this... And so are the children being forced into labor.
With a song heavily arranged and made commercially viable by someone other than the band - who is being hurt? Would you not buy something by a band or like some song just because it was written with the help of someone else? You could argue that you are hurt by the deception... But unlike the child labor example the band is not being hurt.

also what i'm trying to get at is these band guys might not have wanted to do things that way. it defeats the purpose of making music if you make it by a certain guideline or get someone else to make it for you.

But they are consenting adults and could leave the system if they wanted. There is no one who will come in and stop them. They could leave and start some indies band with no connection to any of these groups. Some people do - unfortunately without a support network they hardly ever make it big.

that's fine, continue being ignorant. i suppose no one wants to accept the fact that a world they put up on a pedestal is all fake.

Ignorant...? Of what exactly? Did you really believe that these guys lived in 18th century palaces or ran around killing people at night, etc? Of course not, right? It`s an image. It`s a dream. Sort of like reading a novel written in first person - the author isn`t speaking. It`s fiction. I don`t think that I`m ignorant of any of this.
I honestly think that there is far far more putting of these people and that world on a pedestal happens outside Japan than in. I am not some rabid fan, but I have been out to eat with and have talked with members of several different bands. (Probably introduced because I`m not some rabid fan, but that`s another story altogether.) Only some are what you consider "real" musicians. But they`re all real people and they all live real lives, and they all make their own choices in life.

I think the article is very misleading when it comes to the money aspect of things. A 100,000yen allowance in Tokyo IS a lot of money - even though they present it a "less than you`d make at 7/11". Sure, it`s less than you make working at a conbini, but that isn`t an "allowance". When involved with one of the labels that provide support, they get instruments, housing, promotion, clothing, transportation, recording, concerts, etc all taken care of. What they are paid in cash is basically for eating and fun. If you add all the things that are paid for, they make a whole lot more than most people.
As for music written by other people, it isn`t as clear cut as it would look. Most of the time a band has one or two great songs written totally by the band. But a couple songs don`t make an album, so they will tell a producer that they`ve got a few ideas - part of a melody, a set of lyrics they want to use, etc - and the producer will help them make that into a finished song that can be sold. Maybe 80% of it is written and arranged by someone else, but that song would never have come into existence without band input.

Originally Posted by MMM

For many it's all about the music. I don't think this is true of VK artists.

I don`t think this is true of many artists at all. VK is no exception. It is no worse nor better than any other genre.
It`s sort of along the lines of believing some cute 16 year old with extremely complex and wonderful songs just happened to be discovered and writes all her own music even though she can`t play any instruments and was never involved in music before.