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Originally Posted by MMM
In America now they can tell you that you cannot have the care you need. Your insurance company can tell you that your problem is not covered under the insurance plan you pay hundreds of dollars a month for out of pocket.
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Never happens in the UK. (Pssstt. it does).
Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM
I don't think we have those kinds of line in the US, except for things like kidney and liver transplants, but that is true everywhere (except for countries like Iran where it is legal to sell unneeded organs, and there are no lines for kidneys and livers).
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Now why would you think that?
Medical professionals and doctors are screaming at what this bill is going to do. With government tightening control, doctors are losing their control to do what they do. They are having more and more problems making ends meet. Socialism leads to doctors leaving the system with lack of skilled replacements.
We will have those lines AND have the UK costs.
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Originally Posted by MMM
Philosophically and legally, hospitals will never turn away sick (or pregnant) people. So no matter what we say we want, we have a form of universal health care. The problem is citizens and not the government is paying for it.
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I love this... "The problem is the citizens and not the government is paying for it."
Where does the government get its money from when they are not running the printing press at 101% utilization?
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Originally Posted by MMM
If everyone pays their fair share from the beginning it is fair enough. Instead someone like me, that pays for private health insurance (like every non-government employee in the US) has to pay higher rates every year to cover the higher health costs hospitals charge to cover the defaulted (non-paid for) charges.
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This is a perfect example of socialist ideals: "If everyone pays their fair share".
"Socialists generally share the view that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital and derives its wealth through a system of exploitation. This in turn creates an unequal society, that fails to provide equal opportunities for everyone to maximise their potential, and does not utilise technology and resources to their maximum potential nor in the interests of the public."
The reason you pay high rates is because nothing is being done to address the rising cost of health care. None of the simple reforms such as tort or state line boundries being lifted, call for insurance pools, cuts in medicare waist without cuts in care etc. The admistration wanted nothing of it. They wanted to grow government and obtain the corner stone of control of a society.
Yep, get used to your rates MMM, because they are only going up. Look at your utopia of 1 trillion dollars in the midst of a recession and unsustainable debt. Cost of Insurance Rates going up, plus its business as usual with cost of health care going up, plus we threw in 1 trillion to the debt. The economic illiteracy of this administration and government in general is astounding.
Why would anyone believe the estimates that this is going to bring down costs in the long run? Where has a government program ever done this?
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Originally Posted by MMM
In a country where everyone was covered, I wouldn't have to pay for those charges, and overall it would be less expensive for everyone.
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Like the UK?
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Originally Posted by MMM
There is no public option and no universal health care. How is this socialist reform?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMM
So no matter what we say we want, we have a form of universal health care.
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Which is it? Do we have it or don't we?
Come on. There are pleny of congressmen that are admitted socialists and believe in socialism. Its not a evil word "socialism". It is a political idea and the various theories of economic organization. Just something America doesn't value. It is something that we fought a war over to gain independence from this ideal. Like many democrats today
Obama and the people that surround him obviously have these ideals at heart. "Fat cat bankers" and "I just want to spread the wealth around" "the rich getting too rich"... tax income of "200K" today, "150K" down the road, "100K" a little further until... ohhh.. there isn't a middle class anymore.
Speaking of Fat Cat Bankers: Why is it illegal now for banks to give student loans and only the government can... oh I'm not off topic... this little tid bit of legistlation was in the health care bill.
Voted NO on raising estate tax exemption to $5 million
Voted NO on supporting permanence of estate tax cuts
Voted NO on permanently repealing "death tax."
Voted NO on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax
Strongly opposes the reduction of taxes on capital gains
Voted YES on $47B for military by repealing capital gains tax cut
Voted NO on retaining reduced taxes on capital gains and dividends
Voted NO on extending the tax cuts on capital gains and dividends
Supports universal health care which provides access to health care regardless of ability to pay.
Supports increased government spending on health care.
Year - Tax Burden
1900 5.90%
1910 5.02%
1920 11.96%
1930 11.61%
1940 17.98%
1950 24.87%
1960 27.88%
1970 29.90%
1980 30.68%
1990 30.80%
2000 33.98%
2001 33.01%
2002 30.27%
2003 29.51%
2004 29.69%
2005 31.53%
2006 32.29%
2007 32.69%
When we reach 50% you are officially a slave.
I don't want a socialist state because we will have more of:
*Reduced prosperity
*Distorted or absent price signals
*Reduced incentives for workers
*Slow or stagnant technological advance