[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

Understand?

<Harp sound of begin flash back sequence>

clintjm:"Socialism: Do you think it could work in the states?
Is the president and the current administration working toward this?"

Tsuwabuki:"Yes, and yes. This is why I vote the way I do."

<So here we establish you believe the president and current administration are working toward socialism. This is why you vote the way you do.>

clintjm: "Which ideologies of socialism do you think the president and most of the administration is: democratic socialism or Marxist-Leninist socialism?"

Tsuwabuki: " would say the former, but the former encompasses several competing definitions". . . . "If Obama ran on common sense capitalism compatible democratic socialism, all many of his opponents would hear is "socialism" and dialogue would cease."

clintjm: "I'm confused. Is Obama a socialist or isn't he? According to Tswabuki, a proclaimed socialist, he agrees in the above responses that the president and the administration is working toward socialism and that is why he votes the way he does. When I asked "Which ideologies of socialism do you think the president and most of the administration is: democratic socialism or Marxist-Leninist socialism?" And it was answered. Why isn't he a socialist then?
If not, Tsuwabuki, do you believe the President is still a socialist after your previous posts I highlighted above?
What I'm reading is he has socialist agendas, but he isn't a socialist."

Tsuwabuki: "I think Obama is personally not a socialist. But that isn't what I thought you were previously asking. I think his policies are as far as he can go to not alienate people like me who are and yet not risk losing votes of independents, or more conservative members of our own party. I do think some of the policies, such as healthcare, are headed that direction, and that the Obama administration as a whole, just as previous Democratic adminstrations, has a progressive and socialist "taste" to it.

<Here we establish that you don't think he is personally a full blown Socialist. But you think his policies are as far as he can (meaning he would like to go all the way), without alienating independents and democrats.>

clintjm: "Interesting. So it tastes like it, but isn't quite a socialistic agenda. When does it become a socialistic agenda? I'm missing the line where he could be called a socialist and a progressive. It seems to me that the media and the adminsitration itself refuses to call themselves that only because they know that they haven't got a chance to run in the U.S.

<Harp sound ending flash back sequence>

My question still stands. *Where is the line drawn of being a socialist or not? There seems to be some unwritten line that me and people like me are missing that distinguishes him from being a socialist. You said this is why you vote the way you do when asked if the president and this administration is moving towards socialism. As you are a proclaimed socialist who believes in socialism, I thought there would be no one better to get this information from.

Like many, MMM is frothing at the mouth at everyone someone calls this administation and president a socialist, yet you are here saying his policies, that are socialist enough to vote for him, but you don't think he is a socialist.

You speak to the seperation of personal beliefs and his view as Senator. Also siding with those as much as possible to serve those who elected him.

Tsuwabuki: "His public position as President, and his personal, internal beliefs as Barack Obama, will, and should be, sometimes at odds."

So which side is which? Is his personal beliefs socialistic, or his public position? You said "I think Obama is personally not a socialist."

When does it become a socialistic agenda? I'm missing the line where he and many parts of the administration could be called a socialist

I hear you on WHY he doesn't run in office on it, but if socialism/socialist is not an evil word or bad (I don't think you are evil or bad), then why wouldn't you call him a socialist, or why can't I call him a socalist. What has he not done policy/agenda wise or when stating his personal beliefs to not carry that title.

This is very interesting to me as I rarely find anyone from the U.S./ American who believes in the socialsm (I assume you believe in democrartic socialism vs Marxist socialism) that doesn't find the current sway in Obama and politics Socialistic. They only say it isn't socialist agenda because it would not get the votes or support the majority of the American public.

You got the bones, but what is missing that would satisfy?
As quoted you admit he and the adminstration is moving toward a democratic socialism. Thus I'm looking for that line.

If I missed quoted you or you would like to retract or change anything, please include it.

VAT tax.
There I said it. I'm on topic.