Quote:
Originally Posted by chryuop
Actually they are both of the speaker's control. I think SM's explanation was to suggest the source more than the control the speaker can have on the action. Depending on the fact that you hear directly from the sourse or from a second or third party. Or else the general knowledge of a subject or the deepest knowledge gained by personal experience.
This is what I gathered from Sm words, but in all 4 phrases I really don't see any control by the speaker.
Unless you mean something else with control and I misunderstood.
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Well in some contexts ことになる speaks of a situation which is out of the subjects control (I know i said speaker before).. take this for example 私は転勤することになった。 When the construct is used like this it means "it has been decided that I will be transferred." Hence it is out of my control. That is what I was thinking of before.
Looking at the last sentence though, "ここでタバコを吸ってもいいことになっています" I think it could also carry a nuance of "at some point in the past it became a custom that it is ok to smoke here"
To me what SM was explaining to you was who would say what under what circumstances. I am trying to point out the nuance as it applies in English.