[clintjm]

Originally Posted by MMM

I never said the definition of LAWFUL CONTACT has changed. Why do I have to keep saying "I never said" in response to any of your arguments? Please, read what I said. I said LAWFUL CONTACT is any police contact that doesn't involve the officer doing an illegal act. Basically ANY contact is legal.Baloney, Clint. I did acknowledge it. Now will you acknowledge the fact that police officers can go up a group of LEGAL CITIZENS, let's say a bunch of teenagers standing in front of a Starbucks, and demand proof of citizenship?But where is the REASONABLE SUSPICION? If it extends to everyone, then what is REASONABLE SUSPICION? Are you saying police officers should be reasonably suspicious of EVERYONE for being an illegal alien? If that is the case, how can you say this isn't a blow to civil liberties and freedoms? Do you support a law that forces the police to question EVERYONE'S legality?

Yes, it is the fed's and now AZ law enforcement's ability to question our legality. Deal with it.

Originally Posted by MMM

To be honest I didn't even read them because you were not answering my questions.

That the problem MMM. You are not reading the posts before responding.
I answered, but not to your satisfaction of me not agreeing with you.

Originally Posted by MMM

I wasn't interested in deflections. Of course not, because you can count the number of non-Japanese who are citizens on two hands.

But I wouldn't say that doesn't make the Japanese laws not-race based. I guarantee if a Japanese cop asks a white guy on the street to show his ID, that is completely based on the fact he is white. Same if he was Irani, Thai, whatever.

That is the point MMM. The Japanese can profile on Race. Here is the bigger point That doesn't make them racists either. They are no different now that AZ or the Federal government asking citizens of a difference race for legality in the country.

Originally Posted by MMM

Cops in Japan don't ask Japanese citizens to show proof of legality.
People would jump through the roof if they did. HOWEVER with the new Arizona law LEGAL CITIZENS can and will be asked to show proof of legality. THAT is the difference between Arizona and Japan.

False. They can and do Japanese citizens to show proof of legality.
Strange, I thought there were non-Japanese citizens or legal entities in Japan. There are. Japanese can askif they don't think they are Japanese. What if they appear, Chinese, Korean, Filipino? They may end up being Japanese? Still the police can and **do** ask; from up close experience.

Originally Posted by MMM

Sure, I am asked at the airport or when I cross the borders. No problem because EVERYONE is asked. Now you are asking non-federal law officers to make judgement calls based on REASONABLE SUSPICION. Are you starting to see where the problem with this law is?

Nope. Just doing what other countries are doing now. See Japan reference.

Originally Posted by MMM

I don't know why you are making up countries now. I don't know country X and I don't know if their laws are racist or not.

X is a variable. You can insert in country of your liking. They will all end in the same result: They can ask whomever they please of the legality of being in the country x legally.

Originally Posted by MMM

LAWFUL CONTACT doesn't only mean "stopping" someone. This isn't only about traffic violations...you don't seem to want to acknowledge that. This is ANY contact. It could be at a park, a concert, in front of a house, at a school...you name it.

Imagine what you want. The problem is finally being handled.

Originally Posted by MMM

What can Japanese cops do that Arizona cops can't?

Ask about being in the country legally without crazy libs calling them racist racial profilers. A.K.A. Profile on race. Clear?

Originally Posted by MMM

It is a poorly written law of a single state.
Explain how I am part of the problem.

You don't want me to really answer that.

Originally Posted by MMM

You know and I know that the problem is the many industries in places like Arizona that DEPEND on cheap and illegal labor...that BUDGET for illegal labor.

As I said I agree it is part of the problem. It alone isn't going to fix the problem. Read the NY POST article by Ralph Peters.

Originally Posted by MMM

Why not save 10s of millions of dollars in law enforcement training (that Arizona is requesting from the federal government) and go after THE REAL PROBLEM?

10s of million dollars for training? I don't think it is just for training. But government based budgets are not of the finest accounting.

That is a drop in the bucket for most states.
We don't disagree that businesses should be punished for hiring illegals.
Drug cartels and crime bred from poverty, desperation, and gangs is what has brought AZ to act.