[MMM]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I do not want to get involved in this debate as I am truly so far removed from it that I do not believe I could actually contribute to the discussion.

However, having read quite a lot of it, I have a question.

MMM - you say to follow people who are employing illegal immigrants. You also say that it is wrong to just stop people because they appear to be illegal...

I am curious - by what criteria would an employer showing up at Home Depot or the like to pick up workers be judged? How can one be any more certain that those people being picked up are illegal than those in other places?
Or would it be a matter of looking at the employer?

I am finding it hard to see how checking people when stopped for something else is wrong, but stopping employers who may or may not be doing anything wrong and doing a check on their employees (also because they may or may not be illegal) would be alright.

Nyororin, you ask a very good question. I will just make two statements before addressing your questions the best I can.

1) Just because I am more left than right does not mean I think the borders should be open or that people committing crimes shouldn't be punished to the full extent of the law...citizen or not

2) This wording "appearing to be illegal" or as the law saw "under suspicion of being illegal" is the point I am trying to make about this new law in Arizona. The law says "race" cannot be a factor in determining whether an individual is illegal, so what I am trying to figure out is, what are the factors an Arizona police officer will use to determine suspicion that someone might be an illegal alien?

But to answer your question, Nyororin, any employer is required to do the proper paperwork to determine that the employees he or she hires are legal citizens. That is part of the employment process.

I have been a teacher in Japan and the US, and I went through several thorough tests to determine my legitimacy and ability to do the job I was being hired for. This involved not only legality and citizenship, but drug tests, criminal histories and confirming educational claims.

Home Depot is a well-known collection point for hiring day laborers that will work for less than minimum wage with no questions asked.

(When I was a kid I worked at a farm, and I knew a little Spanish so I got to go help pick up the laborers for the harvest days. It was easy to get people in the truck,)

I am not saying day-labor farmers or contractors should be the main target, though they are real reasons undocumented workers come to the US, but that major factories and corporations that hire undocumented workers should be investigated and fined for every undocumented worker they hire.

This is common practice at giant farms and processing plants. My point is that it is no secret and that the owners cannot run away and hide like the workers some people want to punish so bad can.

When you pull a car over, you don't know if the riders are legal or illegal. However if you put out a Hot Tips line giving rewards for identifying employers for undocumented workers then you have a better definition for the word "suspicion" that isn't making decisions based on skin color.