[MMM]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Hmm... As I see it, those who feel very strongly about illegal immigrants are just as - most likely much more - likely to do "racial profiling" when it comes to reporting these sorts of things. With a hotline sort of arrangement, it would be easy to report places under suspicion... But what would put them under suspicion? I can almost guarantee it would be "a large number of workers who look Mexican". If the area already has a high population of legal immigrants, inevitably many of their workplaces would fall under suspicion. To check every report, to me, seems like a huge additional use of resources.

I understand what you are saying. However what I am thinking is that if you give a $100 reward for a Hot Tip Line for a successful prosecution, it isn't the anti-illegal racists that are going to call the number as much as the legitimate businesses that compete with them that want to hire American citizens or legal immigrants for at least minimum wage.

You don't pay the reward for identifying companies that hire Latinos. You pay $100 for identifying companies that hire undocumented workers.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I have not read the bill itself, so can`t say whether my understanding of it is entirely correct... But I am under the impression that it allows for the confirmation of citizenship when someone has been stopped for some unrelated offense. Please do correct me if I am understanding it incorrectly, but I didn`t think that suspicion of being illegal alone would be enough to stop someone.

I have been told in this thread that my original reading of the bill has changed, and that "suspicion" alone is not enough to stop someone.

That is good, but what I am saying is that in my home state, proof of citizenship is not required to get a Drivers License. This is not true in Arizona, but the question becomes, is my Oregon Driver's License = Proof of Citizenship in Arizona. That's a question I can't get an answer to here. Do I need a Passport to travel freely in Arizona. Does any non-driving traveler to Arizona need a Passport or Original Birth Certificate to travel freely in Arizona? This is the questions I am looking for answers to.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

This would seem to be fairly efficient and not require that many additional resources. Someone is stopped for something, and then asked for proof of citizenship if there is some reason to suspect that they may be illegal.

Someone is stopped for speeding on an Arizona highway. The driver has an Arizona Driver's License, but his "wife" and "minor children" do not have IDs. They do not have Passports or Birth Certificates on them in the car. So....what is the right thing to do? If they are under suspicion of being illegal immigrants then they should be taken in for investigation. If they cannot prove they are American, should they be deported? Where would they be deported to? Should they be jailed?

Right now in America carrying an ID is not a legal requirement. However it is a requirement of residential aliens (as it is in Japan). However if I am an American citizen and cannot prove I am not a residential alien, then I am an illegal alien.

Is the problem becoming clearer now?

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Yes, it would be incredibly unfair to just stop people on the street who happened to "look illegal", asking tons of legal citizens to produce proof... However, if they are already being stopped for something else, and are already in a situation where they have done something criminal or are under suspicion - I don`t think it`s all that horrible an idea.

Although I do suppose there is a fine line where the distinction has to be made for that "suspicion" - to prevent a mere "suspicion of being illegal" alone from being good enough reason to detain someone.

My problem is as I described above. People of color can be expected to carry a different level of ID that "non-suspicious" (i.e. white) people wouldn't. That is my only issue with this kind of legislation.