[Columbine]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

Bias? Being as the original question was about how it`s done in Japan, I would think that they might want to hear from people who have dated (and seriously, not just looking for someone to hop into bed with) in Japan.

I didn't mean bias in a negative way, and yes, I wasn't taking the OP's original question into account when I said that. I was thinking more in a general spectrum and got a bit stuck on the east/west divide. My thought process was "Is there a generation gap here on the 'should men pay?' question? Yes, but our older group who seem to support it, all mostly live in Japan, so maybe it's not their ~age~ that sways their opinion, but their greater exposure to a culture where it IS generally the man who pays."

Originally Posted by Nyororin

That`s true in a way, but I still think the asker should be the one who pays when it comes to a date. It isn`t about the money, it`s about being considerate and respecting the other person. Unfounded expectations are never a good thing, no matter what they are about. The expectation that the other person (who you`ve asked out on a date) will be able to afford the date is really not respecting them in my eyes. If they can and do end up paying - that is one thing... But you should never ask someone out when you cannot afford it.

Now here I agree with you wholeheartedly. It would be foolish of Party A to invite Party B out to a restaurant, say, that A cannot afford and then attempts to lump B with part of the bill. Even more so if B can't afford it either. It also is unfair if there's a big discrepancy between financial situations. But this is kind of a starting dating situation, where perhaps you don't know each other well. I guess my main beef was with the idea that women should -never- pay for the date.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

There is nothing wrong with going out and splitting the bill - however, to me that says that I have not been "taken on a date" or "taken out to dinner" - just that we had dinner together. There is a difference in terms of what it means for a relationship.

I guess this is where we differ then; I see dating, on the whole, as a mutual activity. Being "taken out to dinner" is a one-sided activity, where of course I wouldn't expect to pay. But that's more like a special occasion, not a regular date. I might -get taken- on a date for an anniversary, birthday, first date or if he's especially screwed up somehow. But generally speaking, we just -go out- on a date.

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I`m sure there is some level of generation gap involved, but I see it more as whether you are looking for a real long term relationship or not. If you`re just casually dating, like the youngest set on most likely is, then you`re going to think differently than someone who is actually looking for a potential life partner. I mean, I`m not THAT old - the next "generation" down from me is most certainly not looking for a partner if they`re even old enough to date. :P

*laughs* didn't mean to insinuate anything. 'generation' is probably too wide, but there's definitely differences between the mindset of my peers (20-25) and people I know who are now in their 35's. That's not a big age gap really, but the surroundings we had growing up were fairly different. They have their schema for dating as we have ours as teenagers to come will have theirs, as gender roles continue to be shuffled about. A kind of decennial gender shift?