[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Fine though, I'll make this super clear in hope that my words won't be taken incorrectly.

And then you make the first post I have ever seen with footnotes.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Any functional* adult living in a capitalist** society does not require marriage to provide financial independence within their lives.

Women do not require men to provide for them financially***; likewise men do not require women to prepare their meals or clean their homes.****.

Women may not require men to provide for them financially, but traditionally a family is not just a husband and wife but children as well. Sacrifices have to be made, so chances are someone will reduce or quit their job in order to take care of the children. The majority of the time that is the mother.

Serious dating (where one is looking for a life partner / spouse traditionally involve the presentations of one can bring to the marriage contract.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

*Of course I must exempt those with disabilities who are not able to care for themselves. Even then I only state this to avoid nitpicking. It is an irrelevant point when speaking of marriage in the context I originally quoted.

**For the purpose of this discussion we have only been speaking of capitalist societies that embrace marriage.

*** For all intents and purposes men and women are socially and economically equal in the modern capitalist society we are referencing in this topic. Though it is arguable on average women make less than men, it is a negligible difference when speaking of financial independence.

**** With strives in technological convenience it's entirely possible and not overtaxing to feed one's self and maintain a living environment.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

This is counter to the original text I quoted from MMM. In that post MMM was inferring that men attempt to find a female mate by asserting a financially dominant role, and women try and find mates by showing they can cook and clean. (paraphrasing). This is incorrect (at least not dominant) in modern day and age.

That is not what I said and not what I inferred. Never did I express any indication of "dominance" in my post.

A man needs to sell himself to a potential life partner, just as a woman needs to, in turn sell herself. They must present themselves as worthy mates.

One of the ways men do this is by showing they have the ability to give his potential spouse financial independence. A woman will, traditionally, in turn show that she can take care of her husband and family while the husband is at work making money. These are the traditions I spoke of. That has nothing to do with dominance, but has to do with taking the roles to make a family work. This is more than traditional and cultural, but is biological. We see this in the animal world.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Marriage and/or dating is far more of an emotional desire now than the financial desire it was then. While it's true those were the dominant desirable traits within a monogamous heterosexual relationship, they are not now. Those traits became desirable out of a need to procreate, or expand society.

Why would you think relationships were less "emotional" "then" then they are "now"?

Young people not looking for life-mates are "casually dating" and may be looking for emotional satisfaction. Another way of saying they are filling a hole in their lives, no?

The desire to procreate is not cultural or generational. It is biological.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Today when one looks for a partner the desired traits are subjective from person to person. While paying for the meal is a nice gesture, it is not a deal breaker for most people, I would even argue very few. Alternately the ability to cook or clean has become an trait that few are concerned about in today's day and age.

You may be fine with casually dating someone who can't pay for a meal. However, are you going to want to marry that person?

Originally Posted by Tyrien

MMM's cultural experience has led him to believe a women's top concern when looking for a man is the ability to provide financial stability, and a man's top concern when looking for a women is the ability to cook and/or clean for him.

I am curious as to what you think my "cultural experience" is. I have lived most of my life in the Pacific NW, but have lived a few years in Japan.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

My cultural experience on the other hand has led me to believe otherwise, as stated above.

We can't claim a finite answer here, or even try and ballpark something as the most common. "answer" because we'll never know******. If we did then we wouldn't have discussions about what the "standard" is. We wouldn't have such issues dating or finding a mate.

***** I do not believe neuroscience will advance far enough to be able to provide a concrete answer to the question within any of our lifetimes, therefore; for the sake of this discussion I will say never.

I think the answer is just depends what you look for. I know several people that said they would never get married and never have children when they were younger and now are happily married with children today.

When you do get to the point that you are ready to get married you will do the things you think you should to make yourself attractive to your mate, just as you wear clean clothes and makeup, perfume, cologne, etc. when you are meeting someone you are interested in having a relationship with. That is not cultural or generational. It is biological.