[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Not today.

There's a plethora of stay at home dads, but in most cases both parents are working to support their children and the home required to support their children.

You are not suggesting the majority of stay at home parents are the fathers, and not the mothers, are you? Yes, there are more stay at home dads than there were 50 years ago. Still, far from a majority.

In this economy there are more two-income households than there were a few decades ago, but I think you can argue that is in many cases out of necessity and not out of desire.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

People often date with the aim of a long term relationship. Today we rarely date for the conscious aim of marriage. Somewhere down the line thoughts of whether or not one may want to marry the other do occur.

I don't know who "we" is. I know both men and women of "marrying age" that certainly date with the goal of finding a spouse.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Honestly, I would consider anyone who consciously makes the thoughts akin to "gee, would I want to marry them" within the first few months of dating delusional, and maybe even crazy. Especially in the context of the first few dates.

The older people get these thoughts come sooner and sooner. Especially if a woman is in her 30s and is feeling the desire to start a family.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

You did infer it. You inferred it when suggesting tradition is how to go about dating/taking women out to dinner.

This is a forum, and all we have are words on a screen. Either quote me or don't, but please don't insert things I didn't say. Never never never did I infer a man is taking dominance over a woman by paying for a date. Quite the opposite. What I said is traditionally a man is showing a woman he can take care of her financially by paying for a date. That is where the tradition comes from.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Traditionally speaking a man play the dominant role, and (though I tried to avoid saying it earlier) a woman plays the submissive role.

Those are relative terms. However, I am not sure where dominance and submissiveness fits into this conversation.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

and you're moving away from where I clarified financial independence :/

It's very cultural and/or genrational, nor did I say the desire, but need.

The desire or need to procreate is not cultural or generational, it is biological. We know this because it is universal over all cultures and all generations.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Paying for a meal is the least of my concerns when dating someone.

As I mentioned it's incredibly easy and within the realm of reason that most people living in a modern capitalist society are able to achieve financial independence (yes I Count paycheck to paycheck independence). With that being the case it's not a matter of "can't", but whether or not the other is willing to.

Personally I believe it's fine for one or the other to offer to pay. I do believe it's fair that the bill is split though, or just separate at first. The date isn't about the food or who pays for it, it's about communication. After a while of dating there may or may not be a mutual understanding about how the bill works, but that is subjective to the personalities of the couple.

This is the point you are missing. The paying of the bill IS communication.

If I were to ask a woman out on a date, and she refused to allow me to pay the bill, I would find it offensive.

At the same time if I were a woman and a man asked me out on a date, and then at the end of dinner said "OK, you owe 40 dollars" I would be in shock.

This ritual is part of dating and communication.

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Again, when I date I'm not even thinking about marriage, or spending my life with the person. I'm thinking whether or not she likes me, but more importantly if I like her enough to have dinner with her again.

If marriage is supposed to be an institution bounded together by love, then you cannot just decide like that. You fall for someone over time.

That's fine. I am not saying anyone decides their life mate after one date. BUt if you are attracted to her, do you not feel the desire to treat her to a meal?

Originally Posted by Tyrien

Specifics do not matter.

What I am saying is I am fully aware that you're from a different generation than I am, possibly two generations (sorry, never payed enough attention or care to find your exact age, I just know you're fairly older than I) . You've grown up in a different world than I, therefore; you're emphasis on what's traditional.

If I were two generations older than you, you would not have been born yet.

My guess is you are still of "casual dating" age with no thoughts or desires to think about marriage.

I can tell you women much younger than me still expect a man to pay for a date when he asks her out. That's a tradition that isn't going to change any time soon.