[steven]

dogsbody70, I get a lot of what you're saying.

"Should we ever generalise about a country and its people?"
I think there are benefits to doing so as well as pitfalls. People who are unqualified to say stuff about another counry often spread misnomers and thigns that aren't exactly facts. People who have done plenty of research and have lived somewhere for a while and gathered a lot of first hand experience might have more insight to offer. That different perspective from a native is also something that is important (for better AND for worse).

I think I stated my problem with the person who wrote the article featured in this thread in my previous post here, if you care to even read all that.

I feel that much was hidden on many sides.
Such is the case with any war. What usually happens is the winners of wars often have more control over the history than the losers. World War II being a relatively modern war, we can look at things a little more objectively (although the living history aspect of it is unfortunately not going to be for much longer).

The firebombings are indeed a very interesting subject. Although it may not be common knowledge, the information is very available-- the fire bombings caused more damage. Entire cities were completely erased by them. My dad loves history and is always talking to me about it-- he brought up the fact that you can find out percent-wise how destroyed cities were by firebombings. I live in Toyama and didn't know that it was 100% destroyed by teh bombings until recently.

Growing up in southern California, I was eventually made aware of the fact that many Japanese Americans were removed from their land/homes and sent to camps. Some of my friends' parents grew up there. My Grandpa grew up in a place with a lot of Japanese people and his friends were some of those kids that got sent away. He also fought in the war. I wish I could ask him more about that. It's hard to complain about things now days when you think of that generation of people.

Somewhere in the original message on this thread, something about not admitting sorrow for something that surely if one has hurt or upset somebody then surely a genuine apology is right.
I don't quite follow this, but I'd imagine politics is what plays a part in these problems. That goes on both personal and governmental levels. People play politics, too... that's how governments get that way to begin with.

ALso surely a THANKYOU is good manners and polite. Surely it is rude to take everything for granted-- and not acknowledge kindness etc with a thankyou is very rude.
I'm sure I mentioned it somewhere up above... Saying thank you is certainly good manners in both English and Japanese. I think some people act like Japanese have a bigger understanding of thank you than English speakers. I think both countries' people understand the meaning and to discount English speakers' understanding of it is a bit of an insult. Another thing (anecdotal/my own experience): I've heard some people complaining about Chinese people not saying thank you and being impolite around here. My wife came home after work (she sells makeup) one day and was complaining about all the Chinese people she sees and how they are ungrateful and never say thank you. I was interested in why that was moreso than badmouthing Chinese people with her. Surely there was a reason (although sometimes there truly isn't). In this case, there was a reason. What I found on a quick google search was that Chinese people don't say thank you because it's almost considered rude in that it creates distance. They don't expect you to say thank you to them, so why should they say it to you? It makes things more friendly that way. The Japanese have a phrase called "みずくさい”-- I think that is similar to what I'm talking about.

Americans and English people are totally different. The cultures, although they share a lot of things, are also different. The languages, as a result, are also different. There's no reason why they shouldn't be. Likewise, if you travel around Japan, people from different areas in Japan will be different (just like in England or America, I'm sure).

In our country many of the good manners I was taught as a youngster are disappearing and there seems not to be the common courtesy that I knew.
This is something I have noticed too, both about Japan and America. It could be another aspect of globalization. It could also just be that people don't put as much emphasis on certain manners as others. You have to admit though-- times are changing. They don't teach internet manners in school as far as I know. Who teaches cell phone etiquette or any-other-new-technology-that is-to-be eiquette. Furthermore, how do you define or what is good or not good... and how do you justify that?

If JAPANESE desire good manners then surely that is a good thing we should all have them and also respect. Respect is rapidly disappearing here in England. I like the way my japanese friend is polite. she once told me that japanese people cannot show their feelings. I don't like to generalise as I feel we are all individuals but if the custom is not to show feelings then sometimes it can be hard to understand someone. I hope I have not offended anybody here as that is not my intention. with respect, Babs in UK

This is a very interesting topic. I think a lot of people struggle with this when learning Japanese. Did you know that Japanese people (speaking from my experience here) see westerners as frank and almost blunt? Japanese even have a word for their roundabout way of saying things-- あいまい. It is indeed considered rude to lose your cool and while they don't show their feelings the same way westerners do, I think it's almost a joke to say they don't show their feelings (as you know, Japanese people will say that about themselves... westerners will also observe this about them). I think it is often obvious when someone is angry or sad or whatever. It's called eye contact and learning to read in between the lines. If you can't do that, a Japanese person may call you "KY". I think people in general act differently in different situations. Maybe people are calm and reserved during work, but then go wild as soon as they're off the clock. Excuse me for using outdated words, but they used to call this the "5時男". The way you act in the work place, or with people you don't know very well may be different than how things are in America or England. Regardless, I think everyone acts differently depending on the situation no matter what country they're from. Japanese might just be more vocal about these things. I think Japanese people might misunderstand western people when they get excited over something-- they might look SUPER excited to the Japanese person, where they would look somewhat interested to a westerner. It's just a cultural difference. 言葉の壁=文化の壁. That's what I think anyways.

I'm not in the least offended by anything you said and I thought you had some intereseting observations. I certainly hope and think that other people aren't offended by it.