[sarvodaya]

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro

覚さん、こんばんは。

ゆりさん、こんにちは。

Your expressions seem to be very unique.
Do British people usually speak like you?

Indeed! I suppose I do tend to prefer slightly tongue-in-cheek use of comic metaphor and absurdity to add a bit of colour to my expressions. This is probably less common nowadays, but I like it. I suspect that this is part of a major difference between English and Japanese: in Japanese you seem to use many formal set phrases, whereas in English we simply make things up as we go along.

In English the use of formulaic language is in a class of its own as opposed to being the norm. Things become clichés very quickly, and people want to avoid using clichés as they think it makes them sound unimaginative. However, on the other hand, people sometimes deliberately use such clichés to make a point, perhaps to make a point of view seem outdated or simplistic or perhaps to suggest a certain perspective is merely fashionable and without real weight, for example. It is quite difficult to explain, but try to keep your eyes peeled for set phrases in English and see if they are playing such roles.

Sometimes, yes.
However, there are some other ways to make women’s way.

For example:
Could you pass me the salt, please?：
≒（Both men and women）　「塩（しお）をとってくださいませんか」「塩� ��とっていただけますか」
（a little less polite）　「塩をとってくれませんか」「塩をとってくだ さい」
(women sometimes)　「塩をとってくださいません？」

Pass me the salt!：
≒（both）「塩をとって」
（a little politer than　「塩をとって」）　「塩をとってくれる？」
（men: a little politer than 「塩をとって」）　「塩を(とって)くれないか」
（men）　「塩を(とって)くれ」
(women)　「塩を(とって)ちょうだい」「塩を(とって)くれ� ��い？」「お塩ちょうだい」「お塩とってくれる？」

Salt!：
≒（Both）「塩!」

I think there are too many expressions.
So, at first, you should learn only polite expressions. Otherwise, you would go insane.

Haha! I think you are right. Are you aware that this sentence: "Otherwise, you would go insane." is slightly amusing? If not, ask me about it.

Thank you; I've put that in my book. I'll try to memorise the polite versions. Can I simply replace 塩 with something else that I want to have passed to me?

I just want you to listen to the Japanese pronunciation many times.

Once, I had an American friend. (He is not my friend any more, I think.)
He started studying Japanese and came to Japan for a week.
A cat is “neko” in Japanese, but he said it “neekou”, shoes is “kutsu”, but he said “kuutsuu”, so I didn’t understand what he said at all.
I just want you to get used to the Japanese sounds. I think you understand what I mean. After you have listened to the sound a lot, you will say it easily.
By the way, he(my ex-friend) was an attorney and very sure he would learn Japanese soon. However, he seems to have given up Japanese and grown to dislike Japan.

Yes, I know that's very important, especially as I am not in Japan and so cannot be exposed to Japanese sounds all the time. Your ex-friend sounds like a typical American, but I shouldn't really say such things!

Genius! You are talented!

ありがとうございました!
I think you may be overestimating my abilities though! I can tell that I can hardly understand the whole song properly yet, but I can catch glimpses of the meaning. I have not yet learned enough to understand it thoroughly.

Japanese lyrics are very difficult to translate into English, and yet you have done excellently.
あるいてゆくcan have many meanings. In this song it means something like “carry on living”.
ふみしめて can be step firmly, but the Japanese sentence has something more, you know, this song is about a life, not just some roads.

So I would translate these two lines as:
Carry on steadily
Keeping your foot firmly on your way
(This is liberal translation, though)

However, my English is really bad. I’m not sure my English makes sense.
Frankly speaking, I can’t tell your translation’s hidden shades of meanings or something.
Yours must be really great.

Not at all! I think I was adding structure that isn't there in the original. Looking at your translation, I think the best way to bring out the meaning would be something like:

Carry on steadily
Keeping your foot firmly upon your chosen path

Perhaps this brings out more that you have to choose where you're going and have the courage to carry through that choice to the end, which is what I think the song is getting at. Is that correct?

人生　涙と笑顔あり（じんせい　なみだとえがおあり）

In life there are both tears and smiles

そんなに悪くは　ないもんだ　（そんなにわるくは　な いもんんだ）

?things are not so bad?

なんにもしないで　生きるより　（なんにもしないで　 いきるより）

[??I'm really not sure of this one, but how about this:] by refusing to become nothing, choose to live

何かを求めて　生きようよ　（なにかをもとめて　いき ようよ）

Set a goal [lit: seek something] and live!

If you feel like saying something about my comment, I will accept your challenge!!
However, I’ve never learned how to debate at all. Most Japanese schools don’t teach it. In Japanese society, it is supposed that the silent type is better than silver tongue.
In addition, I don’t even know what real debate is. So, when you find my comment is strange, tell me, please.

We were never really taught to debate as such. There was a debating society at school, but I was never really very interested in that. Let's just see how we go anyway...

It’s鎖国. I’ve never heard the word海禁. This may be Chinese?

I only know what it says on wikipedia about the terminology! Apparently 海禁 is derived from the Chinese concept, but was used during the Edo period itself to describe the policy more as a "restriction" than a total "seclusion", implying that trade and cultural exchange was not completely eliminated, but tightly controlled and limited. It also says that people have started using this term more nowadays, but obviously that's not the case!

New Expressions:

You say 「いただきます」when you start eating.
This 「いただきます」is usually translated as “Let’s eat!”, but this expression is not only a call, but an expression of thanks to the cook, the person who has afforded the food, the gods, the nature and all the things which have produced the food.
So you should say this with a sense of gratitude.
The person who has made the food also says this.

ありがとうございました。
I understand. In the west we have many different customs that coexist as a result of multiculturalism. There is quite a good wikipedia page about it:

Grace (prayer) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see there are many different formulaic Christian expressions of gratitude, but as it says, it is far more common for people to make up a small prayer on the spot. People generally thank God and less commonly the host for the meal and perhaps for bringing the guests together in fellowship or for prosperity or some such.

Nowadays this custom has become even less common however. I think the Japanese way is very nice. Some people feel uncomfortable saying grace as it constitutes an overt expression of religiosity, so it is nice to have a fairly neutral but respectful expression of gratitude.

Some people even try to overcome this awkwardness by using a comical formula such as "rub-a-dub-dub, thanks for the grub!"

I think it is a great shame to eat without expressing gratitude, and so it is sad that people have begun to feel uncomfortable with our various traditional ways of expressing gratitude in the west. It would be much better if we had a word or phrase like 「いただきます」 to use.

When you finish eating, you say 「ごちそうさまでした」...
You should say it with a sense of gratitude too.

Notwithstanding everything I said above about grace, it is perfectly normal and expected that guests will thank the host in some way after a meal. It would be considered quite rude not to come up with something like "Oh, that was such a lovely meal, thank you."

After you say ごちそうさまでした, the cook replies;
「おそまつさまでした」
そまつ（粗末） means meager, but when the food was not meager, the cook still says this.
I believe this original was;
When you have guests and cooked for them, you say 「おそまつさまでした」meaning “Don’t mind about the food. You don’t need to repay. You can forget.”
These days, this expression has become daily words.

I like this custom very much. I will remember it.

それでは、日本語、がんばってください。Take it easy!

ありがとうございました。
がんばります!

Originally Posted by YuriTokoro

If you like the song, I’m very happy.

Yes!! You need courage to live!!

Sorry. I don’t understand what you mean.
So I write here the meaning of these two lines in Japanese.

No, I'm sorry; I got that wrong.

あなた/わたしが　誰かに（だれかに）/何かで（なにかで）　負けたと（まけたと）　思って（ おもって）　止まっている（とまっている）　間に（あ いだに）、

I think this means: "when you/I have lost someone/something and feel like giving up [literally: plan to stop]"

誰か（だれか）　ほかの人（ひと）が　あなた/わたしの　先に行きます（さきにいきます）

I can't quite understand this line; something about "some other person"? and "before/previously to live"? I should understand but I'm confused...

Is it "other people have lived before you" in the sense of "others have trodden this path before you"?

後から（あとから）　来た人に（きたひとに）　追い越 されて（おいこされて）

"From behind came a person and passed you by"?

I feel very dim-witted, what am I missing!?

the writer has avoided あなたorわたし in the lyrics on purpose.
In English, you just can say “you” meaning both the speaker and the listeners, but in Japanese, the word would beわたしたちorわれわれ(我々), and these words can’t fit this song.
So the writer didn’t put the subject.

I understand...