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cranks (Offline)
JF Old Timer
 
Posts: 263
Join Date: Jul 2010
08-21-2010, 06:51 PM

At 38, I'm not really young, but I'm at least Japanese, and here is my take on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dogsbody70 View Post
Japanese Groups
wonder if anyone has views on this? Is it all outdated and inaccurate?
"Human race's emphasis on society extends far beyond the family.  It runs through every facet of their lives.  Every person's life is centered in a society, and exclusion from such a structure, whether it be school, work, or play, is the equivalent of non-existence. "

I don't know how you feel about these sentences, but they don't sound too strange to me.

It's not that it's outdated or inaccurate, but it's too much of a broad stroke to say anything practical or empirical. I feel MMM's observations such as "expressing genuine gratitude at the scene", "saying thanks the next time you meet them", etc., quite precise and practical, although they are on the more formal/classic side, but the article in your link is more literary, aiming at stoking interest in a completely different culture or in the fact that completely different cultures even exist outside of western ones. I'm not saying it's a bad read, it's definitely interesting in a sense that some English speaking people saw Japan this way, and it is doing a good job on introducing some Japanese ideas, but it's still a story and not a study, so it should be treated as such.

Now, ON(恩) does play a big part in East Asian culture, and I myself do feel "indebted" when someone gives me a favor. But western people aren't oblivious to ON either, they also give back when they are given, like if someone invite you for dinner, you'll probably invite them back. After all, we all are social beings, and we can't survive without having good relations with others. What IS different is the protocols. Japanese people tend to give back the tiniest favors, and they want to do it promptly.

I think not helping strangers is just a big city attitude, you see exactly the same attitude in London or Paris. One time I got my wallet stolen in Paris, and had to walk 2 hours hauling my 40 lb. suitcase, with no money, no food, no water, and the temperature was like 110 degrees. Nobody offered help, but once I talked to a cop who then yelled to the crowd, apparently to find someone who spoke English, a couple came up and took me to the police station. The guy even gave me something like $30 so the next day I could go to the airport (I had my ticket and passport). I was too exhausted to ask his address, and I still owe him that money. I guess I'll give this ON back if I find some French guy stranded in the middle of Tokyo.

Anyway, about American Occupation and social changes. Losing WW2 brought a big change to Japan for sure, but I wouldn't put it beyond the extent that Germany experienced changes after the war. Sociologically, it is nothing compared to 明治維新, and the collection of social movements called 大正 デモクラシー in the 1910's and 1920's were also pretty significant. How traditional people still are vary depending largely on where you live and what kind of people you hang out with, so it is hard to come up with a general ballpark figure that applies to the whole Japanese society. We've gotta get a more magnified view to have any idea on it.

Last edited by cranks : 08-21-2010 at 11:31 PM.
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