[cranks]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

You are crazy.. your post went all over the place. Debito? Racism? Evolution? (which I belief is a scientific fact).. this has nothing to do with the argument.

Actually, they have, but if you like it concise, I'll make it so. I'm glad you believe in evolution, because quite a lot of people don't...

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Furthermore, the only one bringing up race is you? Let me say it again... there are JAPANESE people that agree with me and WESTERN people that (stupidly) agree with you. This is NOT about Japan against the West. Evidently very few people in Japan eat Whale or Dolphin anyway.

Yes. few people in Japan eat Whale. Dolphin is even more uncommon. I never had either of them. I repeated so many times, that it is not about they actually want to eat them. It is about the basic principal of 「いただきます」, which IS VERY JAPANESE and is something you kept failing to see the idea of. Sure, there are some anti-whaling Japanese too, I was one before. But anti-whaling activists are very unpopular in Japan nonetheless. Greenpeace is actually losing its members. Down to 5500 from 6000. Anti-Whaling Japanese people almost never say things like you do. Have you asked your friends about how they really feel about your view of "Dolphins are self-aware. So We can't eat them. Pigs aren't, so we can"? What was the response?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

As I said before Im only concerned with addressing the points you made concerning my points (X Y and Z) of the whaling argument.

I still cant believe that you are having trouble grasping the logic.

You did not present any logic that withstood my counter arguments. According to your logic, it is totally OK to kill and eat dogs. Is that right?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I have business with Dolphins because to me they are self aware animals JUST LIKE ME AND YOU.

To me, dogs have feelings JUST LIKE ME AND YOU! I understand your feelings. But its always about "TO ME".

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

They have the ability to comprehend their own death. Animals that arent self aware feel "emotions" based on pure instinct. Self aware animals not only feel that but recognise their impending doom. A cow or a pig in a field does not apparently.

Bottlenose dolphins you mean? Then hunting Minkes should be totally OK.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Let me lay it out for you. I believe that killing animals that are self aware is wrong.

I understand this part. And I respect your belief.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

This in itself isnt a logical statement.

No it is not. You just said I believe. It is your belief and that's what I have been pointing out.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

But if you put it in context within human society then it is the only humane conclusion that one could come to.

Why?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

And I dont know why you continue to say that Im wrong about the whales and dolphins.

I never said you were wrong.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Ive given you scientists and links which say Im right. That is good enough for me and the doubts you are casting on such opinion is not very convincing.

I have never said that Bottolenose dolphins don't recognize their optical images in a mirror or mourn about their kins' deaths. I'm just saying that can not be the "logical reason" to be anti-whaling. For a starter, Minke whales and Bottolenose dolphins are as different as giraffes and cows. It is like "giraffes are endangered so we shouldn't eat cows."

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

After all, you gave me a link claiming that is said that "dolphins werent self aware" and when I checked the link it said that a strong argument can be made that they WERE self aware though the tests didnt prove outright.

The paper clearly said there is a possibility, but they could not prove it. I just brought it up as an example of existing "arguments". If they are still arguing on Bolltenose dolphins, Minke Whales sure won't pass "the test". And honestly, I don't really care if they pass a specific test or not. Dogs are self-aware. Ask any dog owner.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

If that is not good enough for you then Im at the point where I think nothing will convince you.

I'm actually not too sure what you are trying to convince me.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I dont think I said anywhere that dogs werent self aware therefore we should eat them... you are putting words in my mouth.

No, you didn't. But according to your logic, dogs are not self-aware. And according to your logic, animals that aren't self-aware can be killed and eaten. What do you think of dogs then?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I can probably give other reasons for why I wouldnt eat dogs. Just like I can give other reasons why I wont eat babies.

Your logic has been changing. First, you said we can't eat anything that is self-aware. Then, confronted with the babies example, you introduced an exception that babies are different and there are other reasons for them, but self-aware animals can not be eaten. Now, confronted with the dogs example, again, you say dogs are different and there are other reasons for not eating dogs. Every time your "logic" is refuted, you introduce a new exception. That is not logic.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

When you say that I advocate eating babies and dogs because I dont feel that self aware animals should be killed, let alone eaten then you are making a huge error in logic.

Please present the error.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

You are absolutely right about one thing. I feel that I am morally superior to the people who support whaling and dolphin hunting. I even feel morally superior to those that eat meat as I rarely eat meat except when Im a guest at someones house etc.

eh... think about it. If there is some religious Muslim guy who thinks he is holier than thee, and comes in to your house and preach about what you should and should not do, will you listen to him? Most people will be like "What the? Get the F out of here". This is EXACTLY what's happening regarding whaling and I don't know why you can't see it.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Anyway... I think we've exhausted the directions in which we can go from here concernig whaling and dolphin hunting.

I don't think I have, but yes, what I am talking about, at least the core of it, is not just whaling and dolphin hunting. So either way works for me. Even if I agree to your beliefs, Whaling is OK anyways, because it is only Bottlenose Dolphins that are self-aware by your definition. Minke Whales are OK to be hunted.