[princessmarisa]

Originally Posted by MMM

Of course I do not disagree with adoption? Why would you say that?

Due to the entire blood is best tirade you keep lamenting on about.

So why to people have instincts to have children in the first place? We may be civilized and intelligent, but we are still human beings.

The instinct is usually the one to have sex, and the child can be a wanted or unwanted side effect.
People who chose to have children as a conscience trying effort are those who put a lot of intelligent thought into reasons. Some want to raise a child as a sense of worth, others as a way to give and receive love, some just because they will get more benefits. It is not a simple instinct to procreate.

I never said we are not human beings, I said we are an intelligent species as opposed to a more simple animal who acts on instinct alone.

And there are schools of thought that say the exact opposite. What can I say?

I am mostly talking about the formative years from 0 to about 5, the pre-school age.

As you said yourself these spend the majority of the day asleep, so are largely unaware if the actual parents are there or not. As long as their physical needs and emotional needs are catered for, along with some psychological development or educational stimulation their upbringing is in no way compromised by the actual blood-parents not being around watching their cot all day

I would disagree that the amount of time has NOTHING to do with how a child grows up, but how they are looked after has a lot to do with it. Who is going to look after a child better, a loving mother with everything invested in her child's upbringing, or a day care worker getting paid minimum wage who has NOTHING invested into the child's upbringing or future?

You presume here that most parents care about their children so much that the Love alone will be better for them than actual knowledge of how to help children develop. You also presume most childcare professionals are minimum wage lackies who don't care about their job.

In reality, a bad parent won't get caught as easily on behaving irresponsibly as a professional would. So by that fact, on average professionals will give better care than parents.

Yes some parents will give exceptionally good care, and some professionals exceptionally bad.

However on a large scale, those with training, being monitored/regulated by the government and various other influences such as knowing the support services around, first aid training, etc. even reasons as selfish as keeping their job will cause professionals on average to be better at the task at hand than a parent raising their child at home.

Just because there are bad parents doesn't mean parenting is bad. It seems like the attitude is "leave it to the professionals" and maybe that is the reason, at least in the UK it seems, you are having the social problems you are having.

I never said that all parenting is bad, I merely dissected your ideaology that "blood is always best" and that is is preferred and ideal to have children raised in the home, by the parents, not childcare.

Why are there so many bad parents in the UK? Is it because these parents were raised by babysitters or social workers, and not their actual parents? Why good modeling did they get from their parents that made them turn out so crummy? Or did they get very little modeling at all?

I really doubt that there are bad parents because they were raised by childcare professionals. If they were raised by their blood relatives how would that make them any better at parenting, unless we are expected to believe that by just having a blood bond one would know perfectly how to raise a child!

It is far more because of social workers we care more about upbringing now and highlight potential issues and intervene for the Child's sake.
There are not *more* bad parents, we are just *more* aware of the issues due to mass media improvements and changing ideas in what a child needs.

Do I really need to get into X years ago we thought it was fine to send children down the mines and work them half to death and other similar off the wall examples?
No one thought they were bad parents then, society evolved and the "professionals" as you seemingly scathingly label them stepped in and investigated the detriment this has to the children and changed this.