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Originally Posted by princessmarisa

Urm, how did my thread become about illegal immigrants to other countries?

This would be my bad, sorry. I came up with a bad example. It might sound like illegal immigrants but it was about a summer work in England for two university students who wanted to visit as many museums and places as they could with not much money in their pockets - so they didn't even bring a cent home in the end, only their memories...If we used a word like Britanophile, I'd say they could have been described by that - for that time I mean - people who I know don't want to live in England because you sometimes have a real bad attitude towards foreigners, it's hard to love your hospitality.

But we admire your literature, your painters, your film-industry, your humor, your sports and so on. . . and some does it in an unnatural/crazy level = Britanophile.
And it happens to other countries too. People want to live in other countries like crazy sometimes - kids think if they play soccer good enough they can play into themselves to the Arsenal or I don't know where, or if they sing good enough they can kiss their dream-lord(pop-star) one day.

Why are these examples different than the ones with Japan? Maybe because they look so different, they cannot fit into so easily, and it seems weird somehow, and apparently the settling can be harder too, but still, if they want to dream why can't they? Being rude towards them doesn't mean that you're helping them, it means they will go elsewhere to ask their questions. If you really didn't want to give false hope you'd use different language (I mean: much more acceptable tone).

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

Anyway, to clarify I never thought the issue was limited to Japan.

You've said you'd not heard anyone saying such tings about other countries... what was that about then? And I'm not sure anymore what the issue is.

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

This may come off as a tad passive aggressive, but it is more a genuine desire to understand others.

I see so many threads of people who genuinely think they have a chance of being anything but an ALT/similar without being fluent in Japanese, or having any experience of working and living in Japanese society and how it works.

I think shooting people like this down and asking them to reassess is a dash of much needed tough love, but hey maybe I am just jaded or something?

I don't hear people say this about other countries, even though in many other places, especially across Europe being fluent in English would perhaps be enough, provided you were the top of your game in that field already.

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

I am not sure what the illegal immigrant situation is in Japan, especially of westerners which if we are honest is where the majority of the people I am talking about here post from.

Are you saying that being a westerner means: you are a native English speaker (you speak similar languages maybe?); or that if you're a westerner you will learn Japanese language by using your English knowledge? What's your point with this?

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

However comparing it to the U.K I don't think that many would go as far as to live rough to try sneak into Japan, or anything related to what we see at calais. Far more will be the visa overstayers who go with every intention of coming back then meet someone, or get caught up in a course/illegal job and decide to stay for that. I don't think very many "I must, must, must get to Japan and work as xyz" people sit planning how to sneak into Japan.
This would be far too difficult and force them to face reality that Japan is not a magical wonderland where all your dreams and everything you can't do at home will come true if you just get there and it is definately possible to get your dream job

I guess, without sounding too arrogant, it is my understanding that many people who would "do anything" to get to Britain are because they see our welfare system as one that will look after them well, or it as a place to get more money for the same work, and other such reasons. They see England as the dream-land for these reasons, and that is understandable in many ways.

I know there must be some, but I don't get the feeling that there are groups of Britian-o-philes who want to come here to be the next JLS, make episodes of teletubbies, star on the Jeremy Kyle show, look at a pic of cheryl cole in the newspaper and whatever else is seen as British.

Of course there are Japanese and other nationality teens who love these things, my pen pal is obsessed with McFly and Lily Allen but she would never just decide the best thing to do is pack up and move here as it will be fabulous amazing to be in the same country as them, let alone think she could be the next big pop star.

Yet there seem to be many Japanophiles who want to go because of J-Rock, manga/anime and idols. They think if they just get to that place they can break into that industry, or even that eing in the same place as that will be fantastic.
Some even think this about more traditional things such as shrines and being surrounded by the "mysterious symbols that means things like hope, peace and tiger" to me this is no better or worse, it is still a strange mixing of things you like/find aesthetically pleasing and appreciate with reasonable life goals.

You are mentioning a bit different factors here. Wasn't it about the language and drawings originally? I don't know why are you so tense about this? Crazy people exist everywhere...it's good for you if you don't know many.

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

Other than certain otaku/nerd interests being ever-so-slightly more accepted or at least less harshly attacked in terms of bullying, for most who post here I cannot see why they are so desperate for Japan-or-bust.

I'm not sure how you meant this, could you clarify it a bit more?

Originally Posted by princessmarisa

I guess this is just the place they come for others to tell them that it is a wonderful place and an amazing dream and if they work hard enough they will be a uber successful manga-artist or otherwise live happy ever after in the magical land of the rising sun and it will be so much nicer than anywhere else.

I don't believe in giving people false hope.

So you weren't interested in any optional answer after all.
I shouldn't have replied before . . . One cannot see your real words behind your written ones, I mean you even contradicted your own words(which I pointed out before), you must be really angry at these fun-boys...


Sorry for the late reply. I couldn't decide what to do with the thoughts about immigrants in Britain or other 'dreamlands', I think it's best not to bother with them any further in here. They are pretty harsh/hurtful though, I feel you look down on others a bit . After all this is the 21th century, I won't get mad on foreigners(often British people) just because they work or live here - who rarely learn our language, because it's too hard for and it's expected from us to speak theirs...