[MMM]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Yes... a MUTUAL responsibility.

There is nothing mutual about a woman holding a man hostage with a child he doesn't want.

There is only one way a man can guarantee he isn't going to be a father. That is by not putting his penis in a woman's vagina.

That's it. ONE thing he doesn't have to do. When he does that he has legally signed off on whatever happens next.

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Furthermore.. I find your attitude to sex a little outdated and your analogies don't reflect the mutual sentiment you claim to advocate nor does it accurately reflect the dilemma here.

(drinking and driving into a house or talking on a cellphone while driving are the result of individual, not mutual complacency. Tell me MMM... is the driver of the car the man and the owner of the house the female? I think I'm going to withold my Freudian judgement

just kidding)

It doesn't matter if it is one person or two people. It is about taking responsibilities for your actions, intended or not.

You cannot argue that you are not responsible for the damage you do if you are the cause of an accident, and the same is true of creating a baby. It is a mutual responsibility between both parties. The man KNOWS this before he engages in sex. He KNOWS that if he has sex he might have a baby. How is he not 50% responsible?

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

If I would create an analogy that more accurately reflects this dilemma and ultimately what I think are healthy attitudes towards sex I would use orienteering.

You're both planning to end up in one place, you take a wrong turn and end up in another. All of a sudden your partner who is carrying some of your equipment decides that they prefer this destination (or they deceived you and planned it all along).

You are describing a situation where a woman is poking holes in your condoms in order to make a baby, and you can prove it, I think the man should be less legally responsible for the child than he would otherwise. He takes some responsibility (assuming he was a willing partner) because he engaged is the behavior that creates children, but certainly that responsibility should be reduced on a legal level.

Here's the law (at least as I understand it in the US) what happens to the baby is the choice of the mother. If the mother wishes to abort, that is her choice. If the mother chooses adoption, the father's family may have the choice to take the baby first (but that may depend on the state). If the mother chooses to keep the baby, the father is responsible financially for the child to a certain degree until the age of 18.

You accepted responsibility for the results of your activity when you consented to sex.

This isn't old fashioned, this is reality.

If you don't like the ride your passenger took you on, you shouldn't have let her in your car in the first place.