Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyororin
You said something along the lines that it is rare for someone Japanese to have strong opinions about politics or religion. My response was that people DO have strong opinions, but are less likely to give knee jerk reactions. Not taking it personally then lashing out at someone is not a sign that they don`t have much of an opinion on it. I read your message to mean that you felt it did.
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Yeah that's my bad, given the nature of my statements I should have been a lot more explicit to say that when I felt Japanese people didn't have such strong opinions about politics and religion, I simply meant to say they didn't take it so personally and react in such an emotional way as westerners do, they stay quite level headed and reasonable even if discussing something they don't believe or disagree with.
That is both good and bad, the good reasons I just clearly stated, the bad is that it can be very difficult to get the truth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyororin
You`re asking people to do something likely even more uncomfortable than having that layer of plastic wrap in there makes you feel. Saying things directly is something you do to people you don`t like - people who you don`t really care what they think of you and your manners in the long run.
In asking friends to stop doing that, you`re asking them to treat you like someone they don`t give a crap about.
If the truth is clear, then they know the truth is clear, and the tatemae is kindness on their part.
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I think if we continue down this path we need to distinguish between white lies and attempts at obfuscating the truth.
If my friend is staying too late at my house, it's okay to say something like "I'm worried you'll miss your last train" or "Won't your girlfriend be upset if you stay out too late?" instead of "dude, go home, I want a little alone-time before I got o bed". Both of those are okay, and that's not the kind of tatemae that irritates me.
but
If I'm going to have a party next month, and I mention it to a friend, and the friend says something like "I'll try to open up my schedule to attend!" and I fully know he has no intentions of attending because he's scared shitless of being in a situation where he has to speak English with new people, and I know he's not going to come. That to me is just...
or even better
If a friend of mine who is always ultra busy, and impossible to make plans with, says something like "hey call me anytime, I'm just bored doing nothing, we can hang out." instead of just saying "man I'm sorry my schedule is so packed, that's life in Japan I guess, you know I wanna hang out but I just can't anytime soon... but I will send a message if something frees up!" (if the last part is true). To me that kind of tatemae is just irritating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyororin
Something you might find interesting - ask around what constitutes 性格悪い. Also, what kind of behavior by a friend would make them "引く".
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That's seikakuwarui yeah? I was told it basically means being mean, or inconsiderate, generally intentionally. I was also told it takes a lot to be called that, and that people like that can't really have/keep any friends.
And hiku I was told... you'd have to like put shit on your friends face or walk through their parents house naked or do something quite extreme, I couldn't get any realistic examples. Another example was a case of super extreme inconsideration, like telling the guy who's dying of lung cancer that he was an idiot for smoking and he deserves it.
But maybe the first few examples are kimochiwarui-hiku, yeah?
Can you give me your versions of these?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyororin
In general, I don`t think that people would ever get upset about being educated on the differences in ways of thinking. It is when talk of one being superior comes up that people internally cringe. The more obvious and unveiled the pushing of one set of ideas is, the worse they`ll think of the person speaking.
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Yeah I agree with that entirely, as long as you aren't pushing or being patronizing or demeaning the conversation can go quite far.
Whereas in the west, if you so much as say
"darwin said ..." to a fundamentalist, or if you say
"in the bible ... " to an atheist you'll get your face ripped off
Nyororin, with your closest friend, have you ever felt an inability to open up to, or be shown their true colors, due to cultural limitations?
How about with regular friends?