Western bodies in japanese anime

[Abasio]

Originally Posted by ILOVEJAPAN

I keep trying to make this point but nobody gets it:

lots of people have big eyes big boobs and thin waists

but the people in anime are WHITE they have WHITE skin.

A Japanese person can be as pale as humanly possible and there skin still wouldnt look they way an actual caucasion person's skin looks.

The only thing that really shows any signs of wanting to look western (at least I think) is the fact that the characters have caucasion skin.

I can only imagine this is once again what is popular! My girlfriend is desperate to have whiter skin, she even buys products to whiten it! Strange I though seeing as I'm white as a ghost & would like to be darker
Akita women are famous for being whiter than average & this is considered beautiful (I think it's akita-ken )
What is popular among the populous is what generally gets thrown on TV!
This all speculation though maybe they really do want to look western, can't think why though!

[lpdirufangirl09]

i'm super pale and i hate it.

but i don't tan. my skin doesn't take it. =[

[ichigoichie]

I really appreciate various opinions about how anime characters are represented. I'll try to see this issue from a slightly different aspect today.

As TV animaiton programmes aired in the 1950s in Japan, most anime programmes were from the US, such as Tom&Jerry, Betty, Popeye etc. Of course, till 1966, all the programmes on TV were black and white, so that viewers didn't recognise clearly what skin colour the characters had. And the first domestic anime programmes started on TV, aka (Testuwan Atom)Astro Boy, but they were basically targetting boys. Even though there were female characters in following domestic anime programmes, most females were not the leads. At that point, female robots/cyborg bodies were often used which represented non-Japanese (but they speak Japanese, so viewers could recognise them as Japanese).

But I'd like to point out that the anime programmes targetting girls started in 1966, Mahou Tsukai Sari (Sally the Witch). In the middle of the series, colour TV started. Sally, the first protagonist in anime programmes for girls, was obviously a non-Japanese. (She is from the Magic Kingdom). And along with her, western lifestyles were introduced as a sophisticated, modern, cool and heroic things, whereas traditional Japanese lifestyles were compared to her lifestyles.

Since then, western representations are quite often associated with heroines, who of course are 'good' ones. Since I'm interested in girl characters and how viewers (especially female viewers) identify themselves as anime heroines, I think that the way in which the West is associated with protagonists is so important and I really want to know how viewers internarised/naturalised those representations to make their self-images.

These tendencies haven't changed a lot even now. I don't deny that anime characters are 'internationalised', though.

[ILOVEJAPAN]

Now that its been mentioned I actualy have noticed that light skinned people want to look tanner and tan skinned people want to look lighter. So maybe people want what they cant have? The grass is much geener on the other side...that kindda thing?

Anyway, I do agree that anime was originaly trying to be like american cartoons so the style developed from that.

Im not sure if speaking Japanese is an indecation that the characters are Japanese. On american TV if a character is in/from a diffrent country or even a diffrent world, the character will often be speaking english just for the conveniants of the veiwers. I only consider them to be Japanese if they have Japanese names or live in Japan. If neither of those things are true then I wouldnt assume them to be Japanese. I also notice that if a character is from another world or outer space or somthing, there culture will be conveniantly simiealar to the culture of the country they are from (its all eiseir for the creators if they dont have to think up a new culture and/or language) I cant think of any specific examples from american TV or animation, but in Urusei Yatsura, Lum is an alian, but somehow happens to know Japanese and most (all?) of Japans customs and culture, aparantly her planets culture is the same as Japanese culture, because its the same with all her freinds .

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ILOVEJAPAN

Hm you may have a point about wanting to have lighter skin before western influences came in. But thats still sad. I still feel like its denieng who you are. Even if its not influenced by westerness, its still trying to be not Japanese. No one in Japan looks the way anim characters do. Maybe some celebritys, but not most of the random people walking down the street.

And yes there are lots of diffrent tones but its the same general colour.

Remember this was a beauty point that was self-created, inside the country.

What I think is sadder is American women filling their lips with fat and their boobs with silicon, tanning themselves into leather. That's even less natural.

In the old days, in Japan, blackened teeth were also considered a beauty point. If teeth were too white it meant she wasn't a hard worker.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ichigoichie

I really appreciate various opinions about how anime characters are represented. I'll try to see this issue from a slightly different aspect today.

As TV animaiton programmes aired in the 1950s in Japan, most anime programmes were from the US, such as Tom&Jerry, Betty, Popeye etc. Of course, till 1966, all the programmes on TV were black and white, so that viewers didn't recognise clearly what skin colour the characters had. And the first domestic anime programmes started on TV, aka (Testuwan Atom)Astro Boy, but they were basically targetting boys. Even though there were female characters in following domestic anime programmes, most females were not the leads. At that point, female robots/cyborg bodies were often used which represented non-Japanese (but they speak Japanese, so viewers could recognise them as Japanese).

But I'd like to point out that the anime programmes targetting girls started in 1966, Mahou Tsukai Sari (Sally the Witch). In the middle of the series, colour TV started. Sally, the first protagonist in anime programmes for girls, was obviously a non-Japanese. (She is from the Magic Kingdom). And along with her, western lifestyles were introduced as a sophisticated, modern, cool and heroic things, whereas traditional Japanese lifestyles were compared to her lifestyles.

Since then, western representations are quite often associated with heroines, who of course are 'good' ones. Since I'm interested in girl characters and how viewers (especially female viewers) identify themselves as anime heroines, I think that the way in which the West is associated with protagonists is so important and I really want to know how viewers internarised/naturalised those representations to make their self-images.

These tendencies haven't changed a lot even now. I don't deny that anime characters are 'internationalised', though.

I don't disagree with you at all. Sally the Witch, Heidi, we see non-Japanese characters in anime throughout history. Especially looking at this time in Japanese history that you mention, it's no wonder Japanese viewers had an interest in non-Japanese chracters. 1) The cultural earthquake that happened when the emperor declared that he wasn't descended from gods in 1945 to end WWII shook Japanin a huge way. Suddenly they were thrust into the modern, international world. 2) This end of Japan vs. the world made, especially young, people interested in the world beyond the islands. Factual or not, it doesn't matter to young boys and girls, as it is all fantasy. LOSING a war brings a unique blanket of mentality on a nation that few of us can fathom.

[ILOVEJAPAN]

Originally Posted by MMM

Remember this was a beauty point that was self-created, inside the country.

What I think is sadder is American women filling their lips with fat and their boobs with silicon, tanning themselves into leather. That's even less natural.

In the old days, in Japan, blackened teeth were also considered a beauty point. If teeth were too white it meant she wasn't a hard worker.

Yes I agree that thats just as sad or sadder.

But thats kinda my point. When american woman inlarge there breasts or try to look tanner they arent nessasarily trying to look like ant specific race but they are trying to deny who they are as an individual, which is just as sad as trying to deny who you are in terms of race or nationality. So even if you make standards of buety that are unlike how you are or how your race is (even if your not tying to look like any other race), is just sad.

[ichigoichie]

Originally Posted by MMM

1) The cultural earthquake that happened when the emperor declared that he wasn't descended from gods in 1945 to end WWII shook Japanin a huge way. Suddenly they were thrust into the modern, international world. 2) This end of Japan vs. the world made, especially young, people interested in the world beyond the islands. Factual or not, it doesn't matter to young boys and girls, as it is all fantasy. LOSING a war brings a unique blanket of mentality on a nation that few of us can fathom.

interesting point! Losing the WWII did bring a unique blanket, in terms of appreciating more American culture. I only mentioned a TV history, but before the WWII (taisho era & the early showa era), in girls magagines, there were lots of illustrations of fantasy: western scenes, western items, western-like japanese girls (female students). Girl readers admired the images of the West, but in this case, most images that were used were not American, but French or other European countries. It's partly because illustrators had studied in France or liked to use 'modern' images from Europe, not the US.

now that when most japanse image 'the West', they mean 'America' as a collective term by that, but there were surely some layers between American images and European images. I'm not sure, but Miyazaki and Takahata love Europe, not America, which is because , as MMM-san says, something has to do with Lost of WWII.