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Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 345187)

Perhaps you should go to mount Wu Dang and meet the Taoist monks who trian there. Some are well over 100 years old due to their training. Your critisicm sounds to me like bold jealousy that you are out done, and cant take it. Its just I have seen it before by part time trainers who wished they were superheros. They usually blame the modern world, saying you gotta earn a livein so I cant train more and stuff. And it is only the same people who become "style fanatics". Anyone who trains enough will realize if something works, it works, end of story. Overly knowing one style is as much a bad as not knowing it sufficiently well.

As for your statement on peoples opinions of you outside the dojo, it is not true. I find people might like it and me for it for different reasons, Muay Thai, some love the sport, so hope for me to become a champ, some think it is hard (mostly girls) so think I am cool because I can still do it, some like to see me doing something with cultural signifigance... All sorts of reasons. I have never found someone who doesn't like me for it unless they do another style themself and are as you say "style fanatic"

Jealousy? Please... I'm happy with my physical condition, I'm not world champ material nor do I aspire to be a pro fighter, but I can hold my own pretty well and am always keen to improve my ability but whatever... I don't want to get into this "dick measuring" contest with you on the internet because I simply don't care how good you (think) you are or how mediocre you (think) I am.

All I was doing was making a point, directed at nobody in particular and you took offense to it. There is a difference between being good and being a style fanatic. If you read my post you would realize that I'm not criticizing martial artists for training hard. Hey if you have the time, money and/or talent to train like a pro then more power too you! What I AM criticizing is the sense of grandeur that MANY martial artists hold outside the dojo/gym. Newsflash.... Training in Muay Thai makes you faster stronger and builds character JUST like for example, playing Rugby does. It does NOT make you invincible and automatically superior to the "Average Joe" (i.e. non martial artist). Especially if said Average Joe is in top physical condition themselves.

As I said earlier... my original post wasn't directed at anyone in particular so I must've touched a nerve.

I respect Muay Thai... it's a nice sport/martial art with a beautiful tradition. It is no more than that though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 345376)

Well that makes it a little more clear. But I didnt take offense, I was just critisizing what I saw as outlandinsh stupidity. But most of what you are saying is true, I hate dick measureing too, because frankly, mine aint huge, but I dont know how we got talking about penis's anyway...

Back on martial arts. Which is a word I hate useing "martial art", when someone asks what martial arts I have done, I tell them I am not a friggin artist... They are fists or styles. "Fist" is the best word. Anyway, the bit I dont agree with though is you say it is same as a sport. It is same as a sport for most, I mean, you just doing physical stuff, right? Nothin speacial, I agree. But you can use it as a tool for more. Taosit Kung Fu focuses on energy and such, and they are rather poor athletes most the time, but their art makes them incredibly relaxed and healthy and assists as a form of meditation. So that is not like sport. The other one is, if someone gets into more of the mental strengthening side as well, such as the Samurai did. A rugby player does not idolize death, practice imortality, claim to have a heart made of solid steel. If someone is just a boxer or olympian or whatever, then yes, they are just a general athlete, but the depth and heart of martial arts stretch much further than just sport for those who choose to enter.

As for the relativity on the street. I think fat and lazy people are pathetic, but knowing how to fight does not make you directly better than other people. However, the man with the biggest gun is holding all the cards. You cant deny that.

OK... It seems we have gotten over this misunderstanding for the most part.

When I claimed martial arts is like sport, well I suppose I was talking from within a modern, Western context. So yeah... I concede that perhaps in places in Japan, China, Thailand etc in which many of these martial arts originated and have a strong tradition, it is not inconcievable that these martial ways are perhaps more relevant in relation to the overall culture.

Would you agree?

nice that we can pretty much agree in the end. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 345588)

I am training at a full time gym in Thailand now doing traditional Muay Thai

Er didn't you say you wanted to be a Kung Fu master. How you gonna do that practicing Muy Thai, with your legs messed up by the age of 25?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 346781)

And you heard that where? The guys training me have done all over 200 fights, and won most of them mind you. Do you think these men could train me if they could not stand up enough to show me how to kick? The only problem some of them have is they have bad memories. It happens to all tournament fighters if they get hit too much. I dont want to do too many tournaments if I am constantly takeing blows. I will do Kung Fu later, no problems.

I heard this where?
From Muy Thai fighters who i've fought against, where else :rolleyes:
Apparently the philosophy is to not rub the bruises out and neither to let the wounds heal, quite different from my kung fu since the lumps will collect at the joints and the gangrene will cut short your fighting life.

im aboout to start aikido with my friend this month
hes been in judo before that im in nothin (a bit handball^^)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 347116)

I have never geard of gangrene from fighting. I am spending a lot of time with old, fromer Muay Thai champions that have done hundreds of fights, and the only thing any of them have wrong is memory, their bodies are fine. I did have a big lump on my shin, and I tried to rub it out, but they said not to, it will make it worse. But you are talking about the joints? Muay Thai does not really put any pressure on leg joints at all. The kicks take all the impact in the limbs, you dont strike with the joints much. I could understand if someones hands got shakey if they spent too much time on a boxing bag, but I reckon the legs are fine.

You gotta be careful, Ivon. In Martial Arts you will hear a lot of critisizm from one style to the next. I was once told Muay Thai fucks you as well, but I now met old Muay Thai men, and I know this is wrong. Of course, it was someone who did a soft style who told me this. I now realize they were makeing excuses for their own lack of hard, physical training because they were lazy, and their mind was tricking, trying to justify themselves by makeing these people look like idiots for wrecking themselves. I got nothin against soft styles here, just so you know. Just against arrogant people...

Oh no i'm not critisizing anything. I'm just saying that to "practice" Muy Thai, I heard that the conditioning (not fighting) is not treated with rubbing lumps out. I get lumps on my arms and legs all the time and rub them out. These are from conditioning via bone on bone contact, not in normal fighting.
The person who told me was a Muy Thai champion at the age of 21 and has won some competitions and so on. I've met his friends too and their kicking ability is amazing. I'm currently practicing Sanshou along with my Mantis, so I can appreciate their kicks.
Anyway, another friend of mine who is a higher level than me, didn't do this rubbing out and now he has some permanent lumps in his arms. Luckily they didn't collect at his wrists and cause the Gangrene i'm talking about.

To be completely honest, when I was a little kid I took up martial arts because of media influence.

All those old tales of martial artists, both historical and new martial arts flick type, was very...entrancing. To me martial arts seemed like a search for greatness. To become strong and do things the body wouldn't normally be able to do, like a superhuman.

Superhuman may seem like an extreme word, but it's not just all the martial arts flicks and cartoons like Naruto, Dragonball Z ect. Many documentaries on martial arts show them doing unbelievable things. :eek:

When I saw videos of guys doing amazing jump kicks, breaking boards, cement and ice with their hands and various other feats, I was impressed. And I wanted to be a part of that.

There's also the spiritual element. Martial Arts was very mysterious because of the Dharmic(Buddhist) and Pantheistic Shamanistic philosophies behind it. The sort of things that drew me to Ireland in the West. :P

So yeah, there was something otherworldly and powerful seeming about Martial Arts. So rich in tradition, so amazing in what people did with them.

Oh, and the fact my cousin took Tae Kwon Do made me want to take it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 347544)

Are you talking about lumps in the bone, muscle, or what? And where, on the shins, forearms, feet, or on the actualy joints...

If you practice any martial art seriously, I would've thought you knew where and when you get lumps from when you condition yourself.
I'll say it again though for your benefit. When you condition arm on arm or leg on leg or get kicked on your shoulders etc, you get lumps in your skin. So for instance if you have just conditioned arm on arm, you will feel lumps grow where you have been bruised. You rub these out or the lumps collect at your wrists. The same applies for your shins and so on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 348268)

No, I told you I do get lumps. Mostly on the shins, but they are really just swelling from hard bangs. I have never had them, or seen them on anyone else, collect at the joints. The lumps I always get are just fluid, they just dissolve.

Tell me, do you know they collect from experience, or are you going on what others have said. And is it possible you are wrong, and they can be caused by something else?

The only case I can think I have seen a lump in someones wrist is first with my mother, she is old and has a few body problems like this. And second with some piss head that used ta work at the supermarket with me. Niether do martial arts... Well, I doubt my Moms Tai Chi in the morn constitutes what we are talking about... These lumps could be caused by something else, you think?

I think he's talking about calcium deposits that form from repeated blows to the same places. People that break bricks with their hands tend to get these on their knuckles.

The lumps aren't in the skin, they're in the bone. And they don't typically go away. It's literally extra bone.

What Tenchu is talking about is more like a bruise--everyone gets those just from taking a good knock.

EDIT:

I've never heard of recieving lumps or infections just from a fight, as you guys were discussing, either. However, I do know that you can develop calcium deposits on the knuckles and, if you're not careful, the wrists and even elbows for high impact training like brick breaking. If what I saw on Human Weapon holds true, then Muay Thai practitioners should theoretically develop such deposits from their training on the outside of the elbows (not actually in the joint), the forearms, and the shins because those areas are used frequently for striking. If done properly, you should ultimately have a fairly even layer of calcium buildup all along the limb, not just in one spot.

Btw, Tony Jaa f'n rules. (Ong Bak, the Thai Warrior--awesome movie)