History ~ December 1941 : Hong Kong Falls To Japan
 

Right on the heels of the Surprise attack at Pearl Harbor which left the US Pacific Fleet crippled, the Japanese swooped down on South East Asia conquering all in their path.

Canada sent two infantry battalions to Hong Kong for garrisson duties, hoping to deter the Japanese from taking offensive measures against the British empire in the Far East.

The deterrent failed and the Winnipeg Grenadiers from Winnipeg, and the Royal Rifles of Canada from Quebec City had to fight in a desperate struggle against overwhelming odds.

This is the Fall of Hong Kong, December 1941, as viewed from Canadian eyes.



300 Canadians died in the defence of Hong Kong. For the survivors, 4 years of captivity would follow, with daily brutality, torture, starvation, and executions.

it's so terrible :s but i think it's very important to give these informations even if it's after events :) thanks

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fyi 'crippled' US Pacific fleet aftermath of the Dec.7 1941 attack was not 'crippled'. The deepest depth of Pearl Harbor is roughly 39ft. sinking a ship at this depth and remember battleship row is within a stones throw of Ford Island meant with the exception of the Arizona and some minor support vessels. Meant sunk ships and more importantly it's crew members would either be recovered and survive to fight another day. On top of this the japanese attack left intact the dry dock shipyard that serviced the fleet? Again the fuel tank yard located across from battle ship row that provided the Pacific Fleet with it's fuel was untouched also?
The US Pacific Fleet and all navys after 1941' built and operated around aircraft carriers not battleships. None of the US aircraft carriers where in Pearl Harbor during the attack.
Translation japanese attack on Pearl Harbor illustrates poor intelligence and the lost of a strategic opportunity to engage the Pacific Fleet at a later date in deeper waters on the open sea. That would happen 6 months l8tr at Midway.

OK, Gotta PRAY there is no World War 3

It would have been crippled if the "real" attack occured.Originally Pearl Harbor was planned by Hitler but since he is known not to keep his word only Japan was present that day

It would have been crippled if the "real" attack occured.Originally Pearl Harbor was planned by Hitler but since he is known not to keep his word only Japan was present that day.Otherwise casaulties would have been higher since Germany would have came in the form of LuffeWaffe with their pilots having the most experience since majority of them served in WW1(this is why their overall kill rates were so high with some exceeding 300 especially in a dogfight)

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dude, Germany and the United States on Dec 7 1941 were not at war? Germany declared war on the United States after Pearl Harbor on the Dec 11 1941.
go back and do your math.

I know they were not at war I'am just saying most people think Japan was behind Pearl Harbor when its really Hitler.He lead them to believe that both his LuffeWaffe and their Kamikaze Pilots would attack on the same day but as a result did not keep his word like always.This was done mainly because all three Axis powers were steadily building up their war machines prior to WW2 and by doing the above his would be the largest since the Allies would look at them(Japan) and not him

Can you show any links to any research showing that Hitler was involved in the planning of the attack on Pearl Harbour? I always thought the master paln was created by Yamamoto.

As for actual links I don't have any at the moment but a lot of stuff was kept Classified to the public during WW2.Another one was the US did not have the A-Bomb first since it originated in Germany and was their "Miracle Weapon" to turn the war around in the Ardenne Offensive but got foiled by an Allied Operation.As a result some of the material was brought to the US and they manufactured the ABomb before using it on Japan forcing them to surrender(Operation CrossBow).Also the US did know about the Pearl Harbor before it actually happened but for some reason certain documents did not reach the right people in time.(Day of Deceit).Day of Deceit is still very debateable since most don't think the US would intentionally allow something like Pearl Harbor to happen just to enter WW2

What we call "kamikaze pilots" did not exist in 1941.

Kamikaze attacks did not begin until the end of 1944 when the end was starting to look bleak for the Empire of Japan.

Sorry my mind was on the Pacific Theater when saying Kamiaze Pilots since this part of the war was when Japan did its finest.They had a plane equivilant to one in the LuffeWaffe that could easily outdo any American one until the Allies captured it thus making their own with similar characterisitcs.I'am not supporting the Axis when saying this but they just had bad leaders in WW2 and I could literally go on all night on why but I'am not

I am not sure what you mean. Pearl Harbor was a plane vs. ship sneak attack. They were not expecting nor did they engage in plane vs. plane fighting.

I'am saying when I said Kamikaze Pilots my mind was on something else in the previous post.True but things would have been different(as in not good for the US) if everything went according to the original attack which involved both Germany and Japan(I'am surprsied he did not trick Italy also but then again most would consider their leader a rabblerouser than an actual leader).As for not expecting anything thats were Day of Deceit comes in

Without the Germans and Italians, Pearl Harbor was pretty damaging to the Pacific Fleet.

Pearl Harbor was planed by Yamamoto or however you spell that admrial's name. Wether Hitler thought of it or offered to send troops, that's doubtful as it was a completely different theatre of war. Maybe if they had sent some U-Boats it might have helped.

The A-Bomb ( Manhattan project) was several years in the makeing. We didn't have any material from Germany to utilize, we had all thier scientists; Like Einstein. Germany was behind us in A-Bomb tech..they were ahead of us in missle tech...we got all thier missle tech guys after the war...the Russians had to re verse engineer the V-2's they managed to scrub up. Any one not notice how the Tomahawk missle looks almost like a V-1 buzz bomb?

The US was aware of the pre dawn attacks months before it happened. They had Cracked the Japanese code and knew what was going on. However, FDR, who wanted to get involved in the war with Germany needed something major to happen because the American population was uninterested in getting involved in European problems. So basically FDR forced Japan's hand via embargo and had a sweet candy in Pearl Harbor offered up. ( Minus the aircraft carriers of course).

This information was actually known then, the Rebublican's where going to use it in the campaign but were told not to because it would alert the Japanese to the fact that we had cracked thier codes, before the war even started. So the Rebublican canidate didn't use it, since it would hurt the war effort. ( can't think of anyone doing that these days, would be all over the tv news).

True but Germany had Crack Formations(people who literally fight as if possessed by a demon in simplistic terminology) unlike everyone else on both the Allies and Axis fronts.The best example of one was Omaha Beach since this occured without German Commanders present on D-Day since it was heavily defended by a Crack Formation:They had the beach sought up WW1 style due to Rommel,Had 85 MG42s each firing 1200 rounds per minute,Had the entire beach zeroed in with Mortor and Artillery rounds,and as a result over 3,000 marines died that day.Again that was without commanders present meaning the Allies would most likely have lost WW2 otherwise since they would have stopped them at Omaha.That was just an example but either way experience is everything and in WW2 Germany had the most due being accustomed from WW1 along with having exclusive basic training for certain troops.Everything worked out for the best though since otherwise most would have to face Germanys WW2 slogan "Today we rule Germany,Tomorrow The World" if they were present via Pearl Harbor

I know American History classes can be shoddy at times (having sat through several of them), but a conspiring Nazi attack at Pearl Harbor and crackhead soldiers? Did I fall asleep when my professor was giving this lecture?

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The IJN - Japanese navy used more than one code and the diplomatic corp used a entirely different code.

JN-25 was the name the US encryption experts gave the IJN most secure and highest code. This code was an enciphered code.

It was frequently revised during its lifetime, and each new version required a more or less fresh cryptanalytic start.

In particular, JN-25 was significantly changed immediately before the Pearl Harbor attack on 7 December 1941. It was that edition of the JN-25 system which was sufficiently broken by late May 1942 to provide the forewarning which led to the U.S. victory at the Battle of Midway.

No the Japanese JN-25 or any other code was 'broken' prior to Pearl Harbor.
period

They were broken three months before Pearl Harbor. FDR's information about knowing things before hand was known by the Republican's even back then. Hell, we knew what was written on the "declaration of war" before the diplomat who was decodeing it did.

Germany was looseing by D-Day and most of the German commanders knew it. They had the best trained troops, what few where left, best tanks..what few they built, some of the best planes...those that could still fly. Against them was numbers untold. Th US alone had 15 million troops in uniform by then.

Can you provide us some links to papers that support your claims Ryzorian? And preferably not from some nut case conspiracy website, if that's possible. ;)

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JN 25 code was not cracked before Dec 7 1941 , JN 25 was first introduced by the IJN Japanese Navy in 1939. The fantasy of revisionist Pearl Harbor historians can not even admit that the United States especially the Navy did not have a cohesive unit of codebreakers until well after Pearl Harbor.

U.S. intelligence efforts then focused on cracking JN–25. Leading the effort, code-named Magic, was the U.S. Navy's Combat Intelligence Unit, called OP–20–G and consisting of 738 naval personnel. The unit, housed in the basement of the 14th Naval District Administration at Pearl Harbor, was under the command of Commodore John Rochefort.

Using complex mathematical analysis, IBM punch-card tabulating machines, and a cipher machine, which did not exist before Dec.7 1941' the United States developed the ECM Mark III, the unit was able to crack most of the code by January 1942.
The blanket name given to any information gained by deciphering JN–25 was Ultra, a word borrowed from British code breaking efforts and stamped at the top of all deciphered messages.

Thats only because Hitler was a bad leader along with the Allies catching Germanty off guard 6/6/44.If any German Commanders were present especially Rommel it would have been a completely different outcome since they would have stopped them at the beaches.Numbers mean nothing if your unaccustomed in experience

How do you know all this?

Eh, I just remember stuff from History Channle, I suspect they would have a website. Reguardless, the Oil embargo was designed to trigger exactly what Japan did, so FDR could declare war on Germany. Even then I'm not really that bothered by the act itself, Washington did the same thing at Trenton against the Hessians. Sneek attacks happen.

well there is alittle about it on wikipedia I tlooks as thought Nazi Germany helped financially, but I was under the inpression that JAPAn wanted to take over the whole of ASIA before bring America into the war.

It was all terrible and barbaric-----------

Second Sino-Japanese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

American Volunteer Group - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

War's are fought for a varity of reasons. Some sound more noble than they turn out to be. General Robert E. Lee mentioned that it was a good thing that war was so terrible, or humanity would enjoy it too much. Japan wanted to unify Asia under Imperial Japanese rule, no they didn't want to start a fight with the US, at least not imediately. The embaro pushed thier hand early because the were running out of fuel and steel.

I would suggest that war is actually successful more often than not, that's why it happens so much. Somebody wants freedom, or power, or wealth, or land, or resources or a water port. whatever reasons they have, they make viable economic and political sense to the individuals at the time.

The Mexican American war increased American land mass by a considerable amount, the Civil War freed the slaves, the American Indian wars opened access to resources and mineral wealth plus large tracts of land for farming and population growth. Spanish American war brought the US wrold stage notice as well as over seas colonies.

You can say these wars were all bad, and perhaps they were in the sense that much violence was done and innocent people were hurt/killed/ driven from thier lands. However, someone also benifited from said actions. It's those benifits that encourages war. It's really just a national version of bully's takeing lunch money from those weaker than they are. The weak can't stop it and the bully gets free lunches.

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Japan was already at war before Dec.7 1941. More revisionist fantasy blaming a economic embargo by the US on Japan for causing Japan to go to war? Japan was already at war. The Second Sino Japanese War 1937-1945'. Japan and China had already fought intermittently since 1931. The Second Sino-Japanese War was the largest Asian war in the 20th century. It also made up more than 50% of the casualties in the Pacific War if the 1937-1941 period is taken into account.

On top of this Japan also fought another war with Russia after the Russo-Japanese war of 1904–05. In August 1939, just weeks before Hitler invaded Poland, the Soviet Union and Japan fought a massive tank battle on the Mongolian border – the largest the world had ever seen. In terms of its strategic impact, the battle of Khalkhin Gol was one of the most decisive battles of the Second World War which effectively stopped Japans expansion in the Far East along the Mongolia,Manchuria borders.

It seems that ever since time began there has always been war. I hate it.

War can turn normal human beings into terrible tyrants who inflict too much cruelty on each other and Prisoners of war.

When I read about the cruelty inflicted onto many who were POW's at that time, the MINES, the Burmese Railway building etc. That was mans inhumanity to MAN.

What turns a previously decent human being into a killing machine, willing to sacrifice their own lives for the CAUSE- So many are mere pawns, willing to die for the Emperor.- I guess its within each of us to do this if something triggers it-- fanaticism--Mass Brain washing--

As for the rape of NANKING? I shudder when I learn of all the cruelty there and other places. Human beings lives just so insignificant. The killing Lust that must overtake those out to conquer other countries.

Then the externination of so many with firebombing and finally Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Will we ever ever learn? It is doubtful., But it is real human beings caught up in war.

Oh yes many profit from making war. Our world would be overcrowded if not for wars and plagues but should it be that way.

human beings are dispensable whilst the war makers rub their hands in glee.

It's not revisionist history. I am fully aware that Japan was at war, so was the US under FDR, That's why they implaced the embargo. It's also what forced Japan's hand, they couldn't maintain the wars they were fighting without replaceing fuel and supplies. Things the embargo denied them access to.

Dogsbody70; I personally think man can slip into such carnage so easily because he's evil at heart. I understand we have knowledge of both good and evil, but evil is like water, it allways seeks the easiest route.

Such things can occur after years of propaganda, racial villification and nationalistic fervor. Hitler of course did something similar in Germany. Basically once you control all the media, the education system and curb any political opposition you can change the way people think. This occurred in Japan as in Germany. Nationalistic pride makes you believe you are better than other peoples and countries, superior to them. Villify them enough and the people will start to barely consider other peoples/races as any better than animals and themselves as some sort of elite race.

Of course not all the population will think this way but if you lock up and execute enough dissenters and outlaw any political parties opposed to the new world view you are fostering, which is what happened in Japan, then soon those who don't agree with what's happening learn to keep their mouths shut.

GO NATIVE you are right there. Certainly Hitler brainwashed his countrymen and children till they were like robots. From what I have read Japan was run by the military-----------

I wonder now with the internet if it will be so easy to hide or breed false information about other countries.

Although false rumours can be spread so easily.

POWER corrupts.

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Conspiracy theorist frequently claim FDR instituted the oil embargo against Japan in order to provoke war. The fact of the matter is that the Republicans in Congress demanded that embargo.

When The Export Control Act of July 2, 1940 was signed and authorized by FDR, it was basically in the interest of our own national defense, to prohibit or curtail the export of basic war materials to (all) aggressor nations. Under that act, licenses were refused for the export to Japan and Germany of aviation gasoline (not crude oil) and most types of machine tools, to be implemented one month later, in August 1940.

America started limited embargoes on limited items as Japanese aggression increased on the Asian mainland. It started with refined aviation gasoline (Aug.,1940), when that didn't get their attention it was upped to exclude scrap steel and iron (Oct., 1940), when that still had no effect their assets were frozen in the US, but they could still purchase crude oil and take it home for refining.

It wasn't until all of those economic measures, sanctions, and warning had no effect was a total embargo on crude oil imposed on July 26th of ’41, a full year after the first embargoes were imposed. Those ships in harbor, bound for Japan which were loading with crude were allowed to complete the loading and left for Japan. It wasn't like America "dropped this embargo" on the Japanese out of the blue

The Neutrality Act of 1939 (November 4) retained the "cash and carry" formula devised by Bernard Baruch for the 1937 Act. This meant that belligerents were permitted to buy American goods including arms and strategic materials, but they had to pay cash (gold transfer) and to transport the goods in their own hulls, or at least in ships flying their flags.

Ironically back when the US was founded it was "free trade with everyone, treaties with no one". We weren't supposed to get involved in world affairs, just give equipment and goods to who ever wanted them. Some think we should go back to being like that, let the world rot while we make money and do our own thing. I can't say thats wrong headed really, considering the US is basically a continant it could certainly be self sufficient, and it's not like any one really poses much of a threat.

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what does that have to do with your fantasy about FDR and Pearl Harbor, dude?

The US embargoed Japan, creating the situation that occured. Thus allowing the chance to declare war on Germany that FDR hoped for. Wether it was a strange confluence of events or artful manipulation is beside the point, because of those events the US got involved in a major way.

Now I happen to think FDR, who was in contact with Churchill since the war started in europe, helped the scenario along via political manouvering, your free to disagree with that, that's fine. It's not the end of the world either way.

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you got it wrong again dude? Germany declared war on the United States not the other way around ( Dec. 11, 1941').
Germany was not obligated to declare war after Dec. 7, 1941' with Japan because Pearl Harbor attack was pre-emptive attack by Japan on the US.

Not even under the Sept. 27, 1940 Triparte Pact that established the Axis powers Germany and Japan, Italy was Germany obligated to enter into war with US.

Correct, other than forming the alliance with those opposing the Axis powers, the only country the U.S. declared war on was Japan. Japan, Manchuko, Germany, Italy, and the Japanese govt in Nanking all declared war on the U.S. between Dec 7 and Jan 9.

As for the claim that Hilter was in on the original planning of the attack on Pearl Harbor, while it would fit his mindset, the Luftwaffe did not have the strategic positioning for this to have been even remotely possible at that time. For Hirohito to have even considered the Germans to be more than mere political support is inconceivable. Only Japan had the fleet in the Pacific to bring aircraft close enough for such an attack and they had no need of Hilter in their simultaneous attacks on Pearl Harbor and the rest of SE Asia (Guam, Phillipines, Midway).