Women in Japan

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Amnell

Japan's population right now is 127,433,494 (July 2007 est.) . To drop to 50 million, as some have claimed, it would take a little longer than 2050 -_-; . Well, I shouldn't say that because I didn't do the math, but that large of a drop would seem to take a lot longer than has been suggested.

You should read that part again... I didn't say it will happen

[MMM]

Originally Posted by noodle

You should read that part again... I didn't say it will happen

Someone else said it, Noodle.

[kyo_9]

i dont think japanese population is growing coz japan in one of the largest old community in the world and a lot of family in japan is nucleus family..

[noodle]

Originally Posted by MMM

Someone else said it, Noodle.

I see. I take that comment back then... What was described seemed slightly similar to the article I spoke about!

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by kunitokotachi

well, first of all I am going to apologize for cursing you out. As you can see all we ended up doing was enter into a shit talking contest and is not leading us any closer understanding the issue at hand which is gender roles in regards to parenting. So like I say again, I humbly apologize for letting it go this far. However, you did come out of left field accusing me of going off on a tangent. Now, yes women are the ones who give birth; I agree. Women also breast feed throughout infancy; well some rather get the baby formula from stores. Now, I am inclined to agree that the bond with a child and it's mother throughout infancy can create some positive reinforcement that would otherwise be missed it had not happened; it seems logical right? Now, it was unfair of you to accuse me of being a psuedo scientist (although I was impressed when you brought that up because I don't think I know many people who would actually know what that means) because you have to understand where I'm coming from. I have learned to stop automatically believing what I see before my eyes and through experience to be the most rational possible explanation for everything. Before my college experience I would have agreed that mothers may produce the best possible much needed positive reinforcement that the child needs. However, although it might be true during infancy what about when the child starts going to grade school. Isn't the parenting role pretty much up for grabs? Couldn't a father from that point on do just as good a job? The reason why peer-reviewed research is so great is because it approaches all possible variables using the scientific method and provides us with empirical validity. Let me ask you these questions then you see where I'm coming from. I hope I am able to explain myself in a coherent manner.

1. What do you say about same sexed couples who are able to raise children just as good or better than those families with the traditional housewife raising the children? For example 2 guys who adopt a child.

2. What do you think about a father who has to raise his child alone because the mother died at childbirth and he is able to do it just as good or better than those families with the traditional housewife?

3. What do you think about the traditional housewife who does an acceptable job of raising her child yet the child still ends up being a criminal or "messed up" for a lack of a better term?

4. What about the single mother problem? Children have a better chance of being successful and nurtured in a two parent family right? So, it isn't just mother power or father power alone right?

As far as Japan's population problem? Japan is already too crowded to begin with. Now, if there population does start decreasing to an extreme point because women want to stop having babies then a solution may be growing test-tube babies in a laboratory.

I humbly apologise as well for being mean to you.

A lot of the points you've raised are valid. From experience and common sense there is no reason to say that a father isn't as good a parent as a mother. Even so these cases are in the minority in the world. People have to rise up, above and beyond whats expected, to take care of children in the best possible way they can in these situations. A single father could do a great job but having a single parent is more or less a worst case scenario for a child.
From experience, common sense and studies i've read its clear to me that in the natural order of things a father instills a worldly ethic into his children. Children will learn what its like "outside" the house from the father. He'll be their role model to how they will deal with people in life and i'm sure plenty of other things.
The mother will instill family values and "togetherness" and other such qualities within her children. She'll be someone (in usual cases) to turn to for perhaps relationship advice or understanding, something like a therapist for her kids.
These are just some examples of how both genders will effect their children and i'm sure there are many other ways.
Of course it doesn't always turn out like this in a lot of cases either but in an "ok" world, this is how it is.
Now for no.1, I personally don't agree with same sex couples bringing up children. This is utter selfishness to me that a child doesn't need. I believe a child needs both sexed parents to have a fair chance at growing up. If there are any cases where a child has been raised in this manner then its yet to be identified in what way this child may have developed and how well he/she has grown up. A same sexed couple may have been able to provide a house and home and raise a child but I don't think they'll do a great job of instilling both what a male and female parenting system has to offer.
For no.2, I believe a father can do a great job at raising kids but he shouldn't have to. The kid will still need values instilled by a "woman" to be able to function in situations that require those values. Where the child picks these up from is then a lottery.
For no.3, a child needs a role model which is the father. This child will look for a role model and is more likely to become "bad" if he/she stays out on the streets, looking to learn about the world from peers or whoever can provide this knowledge. I can personally vouch for this. Being raised by a single mother i've had to go out and learn about the world by myself, making my own mistakes and learning from them. My mother did the best she could, although being principal of her own college made her quite a strict mother at that
What becomes of the child with a different personality though? Not all children in such situations turn out the same.
As for no.4, I believe i've already answered that in the main body of this reply above.

In all cases above it is up to the child how he/she grows up in the end. For example a child without a mother and raised by a father will be great at interacting with people outside the family. However He/She will most likely have a problem keeping a relationship without learning how to love and care for their partner, which I believe is what a mother instills in her kids. It is up to the child and their personality to pursue this knowledge if he/she desires and learn from his/her mistakes.

Originally Posted by Amnell

So, given that these are accurate, I'm wondering... How is a decline of less than .1% a cause for enough concern for a bunch of Gaijin to have a heated argument over the role of Japanese women in their society?

See my point isn't that it effects just Japan. My point is that in Western countries where the population isn't that huge, we have a danger of following the same route. We have almost the same work ethic here in England. Now if over time this work ethic became identical to Japans, (and we're already known as the work-a-holics of Europe) then we'd be in trouble.
I'm just trying to say that such trends and attitudes to work aren't healthy for any society in the long run.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

Now for no.1, I personally don't agree with same sex couples bringing up children. This is utter selfishness to me that a child doesn't need. I believe a child needs both sexed parents to have a fair chance at growing up. If there are any cases where a child has been raised in this manner then its yet to be identified in what way this child may have developed and how well he/she has grown up. A same sexed couple may have been able to provide a house and home and raise a child but I don't think they'll do a great job of instilling both what a male and female parenting system has to offer.

You know, I kind of disagree with this one. Just because two people are attracted to someone of the same gender, doesn't mean that they should be denied the right of having children if they so choose to have them, although, honestly, I am literally on the fence with this issue and usually try to avoid it since I can see where you're coming from on this issue, and I sort of feel this way, and then I can see it from the couple's point of view.

For no.2, I believe a father can do a great job at raising kids but he shouldn't have to. The kid will still need values instilled by a "woman" to be able to function in situations that require those values. Where the child picks these up from is then a lottery.

There are female relatives outside of a mother. It could be a grandmother, a cousin, an aunt. If it's a situation where it is just the father, there can be "substitutions". I grew up in a two-parent home, but I always admired my mother's younger sister. She was in the Navy, very independent, and was able to travel around the world, and I really admired that about her. She's more mellow now, and is a single mother, but she's still pretty cool to me.

That aside, what exactly do you mean, "he shouldn't have to"?

For no.3, a child needs a role model which is the father. This child will look for a role model and is more likely to become "bad" if he/she stays out on the streets, looking to learn about the world from peers or whoever can provide this knowledge.

But this occurs in two-parent homes too.

I can personally vouch for this. Being raised by a single mother i've had to go out and learn about the world by myself, making my own mistakes and learning from them.

Sorry to hear that you went through that, but the same can apply to kids who grow up or grew up in a two-parent home. It's not exclusive to just those who grew up in a single-parent home.

However He/She will most likely have a problem keeping a relationship without learning how to love and care for their partner, which I believe is what a mother instills in her kids. It is up to the child and their personality to pursue this knowledge if he/she desires and learn from his/her mistakes.

That's ironic. I really feel that I'm incapable of "romantic" love and my parents have always been loving towards me, so this can't truly always apply.

[fluffy0000]

Population shrinkage in Japan started over three years ago, Japans population as of 08' stands at 127 million. The government estimates a drop of roughly a third of this number - and within a century two thirds of the population will be gone. That would leave Japan with roughly 42 million people a century from now. ( 100yrs ) Japans workforce would shrink even faster tys to the lack of childern under 15yrs old, whose numbers have fallen for over 26 consecutive years and now reflect about 13.6 per cent of population.
Within 20yrs the workforce will have shrunk by 10 percent according to Goldman Sachs. Pls note how pension and health care programs work and long before any of these numbers are realized Japan will cease to function as a 21 st century nation. Hidenori Sakanaka former head of Tokoyo Immigration Bureau and present head of Japan Immigration Policy Institute lays the blame squarely on Japans 'Immigration Policy'. Japan simply put, needs about 10 million new human beings ( immigration ) at least over the next decade. Any discussion about women in Japans culture at this late stage addressing Japans present demographic challenge is simply 'rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.'

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

You know, I kind of disagree with this one. Just because two people are attracted to someone of the same gender, doesn't mean that they should be denied the right of having children if they so choose to have them, although, honestly, I am literally on the fence with this issue and usually try to avoid it since I can see where you're coming from on this issue, and I sort of feel this way, and then I can see it from the couple's point of view.

If they took the step to be married in this way then they have denied themselves, noone has denied it for them.

Originally Posted by SSJup81

There are female relatives outside of a mother. It could be a grandmother, a cousin, an aunt. If it's a situation where it is just the father, there can be "substitutions".

That is why I called it a lottery.

Originally Posted by SSJup81

That aside, what exactly do you mean, "he shouldn't have to"?

I mean that he shouldn't have to raise kids by himself. No single parent should.

Originally Posted by SSJup81

But this occurs in two-parent homes too.

I've answered this later.

Originally Posted by SSJup81

Sorry to hear that you went through that, but the same can apply to kids who grow up or grew up in a two-parent home. It's not exclusive to just those who grew up in a single-parent home.

I think you'll find that this happens in two parent homes because there is some sortof imbalance in that family. Kids who have been brought up and expect to get their love and understanding from their family, are less likely to go out and look to other people for acceptance.
If this happens in two parent dysfunctional homes, then it has an even higher risk of happening in single parent homes.
You have to realise that most families these days are more dysfunctional than not and attitudes towards a family in the West are very different to what they were. You can't look to them for an adequate comparison of what i'm talking about. All the stuff I said though is what should happen. This is why I said that you would expect everything I wrote in at least an "ok" family environment.

Originally Posted by SSJup81

That's ironic.
I really feel that I'm incapable of "romantic" love and my parents have always been loving towards me, so this can't truly always apply.

I'd have to ask you more about why you think you're incapable of "romantic" love, though all romantic love is, is love mixed in with lust.
When I said that a mother instills a sense of love in her children, I meant that in the most basic sense. Romantic love is something that comes after "family love" so to speak. One of the things a child will learn from its mother is how to keep a relationship together, rather than let it fall apart due to being emotionally shut off and the like.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by ivi0nk3y

If they took the step to be married in this way then they have denied themselves, noone has denied it for them.

But seems society is trying to. A person can't help whom he or she falls for, imo, and this goes for same-gendered couples. If they want to be parents, they should be allowed to...hypothetically speaking.

I mean that he shouldn't have to raise kids by himself. No single parent should.

But it still happens. Like if the spouse dies or something, then there really isn't much choice there.

I think you'll find that this happens in two parent homes because there is some sortof imbalance in that family. Kids who have been brought up and expect to get their love and understanding from their family, are less likely to go out and look to other people for acceptance.

Or either the child is weak-minded and wants the attention and approval of his/her peers regardless of how much his/her family obviously loves him/her. IMO, this is extremely normal, now the level of which a child will go is the question.

You have to realise that most families these days are more dysfunctional than not and attitudes towards a family in the West are very different to what they were. You can't look to them for an adequate comparison of what i'm talking about. All the stuff I said though is what should happen. This is why I said that you would expect everything I wrote in at least an "ok" family environment.

Pretty much, I suppose.

I'd have to ask you more about why you think you're incapable of "romantic" love, though all romantic love is, is love mixed in with lust.

I think it's because the idea of marriage, settling down, dating seems overrated to me. I want a child, but not a man to go with it. I had a boyfriend for a year. I never did sleep with him or anything, since the idea of it just semi-repulsed me, even though he was a very nice guy. I would make tons of excuses to get out of it. I pretty much only loved him in a "friendship" sense and seems this has been the case towards any guy I've been around. I could be attracted to the guy, but never want anything more than a friendship. To be honest, I have no idea what's wrong with me.

When I said that a mother instills a sense of love in her children, I meant that in the most basic sense. Romantic love is something that comes after "family love" so to speak. One of the things a child will learn from its mother is how to keep a relationship together, rather than let it fall apart due to being emotionally shut off and the like.

That's funny. I guess it's the other way around for me. I have "familial love", hence my wanting to adopt a child, but haven't much of a desire to have a romantic love, which is why I feel I'm incapable of it.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

I had a boyfriend for a year. I never did sleep with him or anything, since the idea of it just semi-repulsed me, even though he was a very nice guy. I would make tons of excuses to get out of it. I pretty much only loved him in a "friendship" sense and seems this has been the case towards any guy I've been around. I could be attracted to the guy, but never want anything more than a friendship. To be honest, I have no idea what's wrong with me.

Ever seen the show Dexter? You should check it out.
I used to be like you though. I just thought anything sexual was over-rated.
Even now i'm very controlled with it, scarily so.

Originally Posted by SSJup81

That's funny. I guess it's the other way around for me. I have "familial love", hence my wanting to adopt a child, but haven't much of a desire to have a romantic love, which is why I feel I'm incapable of it.

Nono, thats the right way round. Familial love, as you put it, gets instilled first.