Ninja Vs Samurai

[vilQ]

Ninja would be me since I'll begin training in guerilla warfare, scouting missions and sneaking behind enemy lines in the army next year.

And I disregard any rules in a fight.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by vilQ

Ninja would be me since I'll begin training in guerilla warfare, scouting missions and sneaking behind enemy lines in the army next year.

And I disregard any rules in a fight.

It's a beautiful thing.

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

It is adaptability that is their greatest weakness.

You should read Musashis "Body of a Rock".

I haven't read it, so you're going to have to elaborate.

[kisftw]

I choose Ninja...Because I have no honor... I would not kill myself... :'(

[sakumi23]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

In other words, a Ninja is a poor soldier; selfish, and cannot be counted on. By principle, they are flawed, and it is best instead to count on the steadfastness of Samurai.

By having a weak heart that lacks a sense of direction, you may follow your fear all the way to paradise, but being like a Samurai, strong in will and duty, you may die quicker, but you sure as hell are the better Warrior, because you will at least see the job through to the end every time.

Regardless, in the end, a heart that knows what it is doing is far better than a lost lamb.

I agree samurais were ready to give their lives to protect the master,ninja's only priority was to stay alive cuz they need to acomplish their missions...in my point of view a samurai has to always be respected.

[Jaydelart]

Excellent post, Tenchu.
I do understand what you mean.

I think you're talking on more of a spiritual level than a combative level, though. Which is the problem I have with your argument. People have different morals, and I wouldn't immediately say that, since a ninja would rather run and survive than stay and die... he is less morally or spiritually driven. That's not necessarily true, in my opinion.

Ninja were born for war, and they were used for war. You know this. With this fact in mind, it is much more effective (and logical) to conduct a mission and, if compromised, leave and return another day... to make another attempt -- accordingly. Ninja were highly trained and effective. They also had one of the biggest advantages of combat: ambiguity. This means, instead of strutting around with a large sword, they can complete the task given to them (or a personal task) potentially undetected. That, alone, suggests that they had ideal qualities as a soldier.

That leads me to the argument of courage and duty...
While you made a good point, "a good soldier finishes the job they are responsible for," I think it's wrong to imply that ninja did not intend to finish their jobs.

Based off their method of combat, you described them as:
Selfish. However, many of them were soldiers, working for the interest of their government or family -- or both.
Unreliable. However, they could operate without being interrupted, were trained killers, and had a higher life expectancy than samurai.

While I can't deny that any ninja could be a selfish or unreliable person, being a samurai doesn't automatically make you a selfless or reliable person either. So we aren't left with a solid conclusion, in that respect.
And, regardless of what you're taught, a person can always act with an ulterior motive. Kenjutsu and Ninjutsu do not absolutely define a person.

In terms of a sense of duty... which is better?
For the sake of argument, a scenario goes that a samurai and a ninja are just about to fail their mission on their first attempt. Both are determined to complete their mission; Both their lives are at stake.

Like you said, the samurai will see it to the end, regardless of the odds. This means he will fight, even if he knows he won't win; An admirable resolve. The ninja, however, runs from a fight that he knows he can't win and waits for another opening (repeatedly if needed). The enemies will be more aware next, of course, but ninja have many avenues of approach; combat is not the only option. The ninja is opportunistic and will act on the first window to success.

Let's assume, in the end, they both die from their individual choices. In reality, not all samurai win; not all ninja win. Based on the basic scenario, which had a higher chance of succeeding?

Ninja

Originally Posted by Tenchu

By having a weak heart that lacks a sense of direction, you may follow your fear all the way to paradise, but being like a Samurai, strong in will and duty, you may die quicker, but you sure as hell are the better Warrior, because you will at least see the job through to the end every time.

Regardless, in the end, a heart that knows what it is doing is far better than a lost lamb.

Some samurai were ronin. That can be considered a "lack of direction".

I don't think it's right to assume that ninja were weak-hearted and that having strength in will and duty is a quality exclusive only to samurai.

- Sneaking around hostile territory isn't exactly an easy thing to do, nor is it an easy decision to make.
- Fighting to run can exemplify strong will and duty, under the context that you're doing it to fight another day.

Both have different missions and subsequently different methods of action.
Both could be dishonorable and honorable; Both could kill one-another in a fight; Both can be strong-willed...
However, ultimately, only one out of the two can adapt to the changing world.

While the Samurai fought fiercely to a quick end, the ninja fought fiercely to a longer life.

[kisftw]

But if you also look at their equipment, Ninja had some wicked sick offensive items. Though the Samurai had armor, Ninja had creativity. The Ninja have this cool trick, where they hallow out an egg shell, fill it with pepper and glass dust (glass grinded down to the size of sand), and they would cover it with something like tissue paper. When in battle, they would crush it against their hip and throw the dust* in te enimies eyes, blinding them.

[sakumi23]

Originally Posted by kisftw

But if you also look at their equipment, Ninja had some wicked sick offensive items. Though the Samurai had armor, Ninja had creativity. The Ninja have this cool trick, where they hallow out an egg shell, fill it with pepper and glass dust (glass grinded down to the size of sand), and they would cover it with something like tissue paper. When in battle, they would crush it against their hip and throw the dust* in te enimies eyes, blinding them.

mmm...yes but this somehow means cheating,I mean if a samurai and a ninja were fighting the samurai used only the sword while the ninja used some "dirty tricks"if I can call them that way....I think that samurais were more respectful...

[NettoKun]

ninja all the way