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Ryzorian 09-06-2009 06:25 PM

I'm afraid historically your incorrect about not killing. Mohammand lead his army into battle several times a year, useually when his supplies were running low. The Koran has a whole chapter devoted to how to devide the spoils of these operations for heavens sake. He also wiped out his own clan because they threw him out of Mecca. ( they thought he was nuts).

I'm not going to argue wether he was a prophet or not, I'll let fate determine that aspect. However, there was very little difference between how he spread "islam" around and how America tends to spread "Americanism" around.

I'm christian myself but I'm not going to hide behind platitudes, christians historically have been pretty ruthless themselves, particularly to native populations. While much of thier actions were un Christlike, going against the actual words of Christ, it doesn't erase the blood they spilled in Christ's name.

Trying to justify the spilling if innocent blood through relgion is a cop out for avoiding takeing personal responability for ones own actions. I think that holds true reguardless of wether your Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist or what have you.

Hero's tend to be heros in many peoples eyes, not because they were perfect, but because they tried to fight through thier inperfection. To become better than they were, and bring others with them while they did so.

Tenchu 09-07-2009 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozyra (Post 768875)
You have alot of incorrect informations.....that's untrue and false....he wasn't greedy....God remined of that there is no prophet after Mohammad...
Do you know any prophet came after Mohammad??I think no.

Yeah, there are bucketloads of "prophets". The biggest one I can think of was Joseph Smith, Jr.:

Joseph Smith, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

But a "prophet" with probably more followers from India is Sri Sathya Sai Baba:

Sathya Sai Baba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But he has less recognition outside the Hindu circle. However, he actually claims to be the reincarnation of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, and he does "miracles" to prove it.

I don't seem to find any of them too awfully convincing, however. But that is personal preference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozyra (Post 768875)
and if you know.....Mohammad didn't kill any one in all his life.....cuz he didn't want to kill people ....and he didn't want to steal money like some people nowadays....he was only defend..and protect his friends and muslims....

He was more than a murderer, he was a full blown pirate:

Muhammad as a general - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Raiding caravans is murder and piracy.

He tries to justify it all in saying it is Gods will, but that's a bit shallow. I liked Jesus's approach a lot better. I mean, for those who don't actually believe he's been given pep talks from God, he can come off as extremely unstable and very dangerous.

Some of what he said was also a bit reckless. I mean, there's no way he could have known people were actually going to take to what he said in the future, but still, he always has to consider the possibility that writing a book may have some negative concequences if you don't think the content through. The book he wrote has fueled a non stop war since his death.

Kozyra 09-07-2009 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryzorian (Post 768881)
I'm afraid historically your incorrect about not killing. Mohammand lead his army into battle several times a year, useually when his supplies were running low. The Koran has a whole chapter devoted to how to devide the spoils of these operations for heavens sake. He also wiped out his own clan because they threw him out of Mecca. ( they thought he was nuts).

I'm not going to argue wether he was a prophet or not, I'll let fate determine that aspect. However, there was very little difference between how he spread "islam" around and how America tends to spread "Americanism" around.

I'm christian myself but I'm not going to hide behind platitudes, christians historically have been pretty ruthless themselves, particularly to native populations. While much of thier actions were un Christlike, going against the actual words of Christ, it doesn't erase the blood they spilled in Christ's name.

Trying to justify the spilling if innocent blood through relgion is a cop out for avoiding takeing personal responability for ones own actions. I think that holds true reguardless of wether your Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist or what have you.

Hero's tend to be heros in many peoples eyes, not because they were perfect, but because they tried to fight through thier inperfection. To become better than they were, and bring others with them while they did so.

-yes....I am with you, Prophet Mohammad lead his army into battle several times a year.....and he instigate to fight the enemys....But He did't kill any one.....
-No ,that is false,He didn't his own clan because they threw him out of Mecca,when he conquered Mecca....He said;''what I will do with you know?you fight me and thought that I was nut'' ....then he said"Go now,I will forgiven you'' ''I wish to be all people in Islam and I fight for that''...
Then He return all the the spoils to his his own clan in Mecca..
-yes...andI'll let fate determine that aspect

Kozyra 09-07-2009 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 769065)
Yeah, there are bucketloads of "prophets". The biggest one I can think of was Joseph Smith, Jr.:

Joseph Smith, Jr. - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

But a "prophet" with probably more followers from India is Sri Sathya Sai Baba:

Sathya Sai Baba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But he has less recognition outside the Hindu circle. However, he actually claims to be the reincarnation of Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha, and he does "miracles" to prove it.

I don't seem to find any of them too awfully convincing, however. But that is personal preference.

He was more than a murderer, he was a full blown pirate:

Muhammad as a general - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Raiding caravans is murder and piracy.

He tries to justify it all in saying it is Gods will, but that's a bit shallow. I liked Jesus's approach a lot better. I mean, for those who don't actually believe he's been given pep talks from God, he can come off as extremely unstable and very dangerous.

Some of what he said was also a bit reckless. I mean, there's no way he could have known people were actually going to take to what he said in the future, but still, he always has to consider the possibility that writing a book may have some negative concequences if you don't think the content through. The book he wrote has fueled a non stop war since his death.

-He wasn't a murder....He was help all people and you don't have any signs that he was murder..
I did't see in wikipedia that he was a murderer and a full blown pirate...
In koran ,any one steal anything from any one (muslim or not muslim)
must to cut his hand and must to all people see that...
In Islam if you don't like people more than your Brother ,you aren't muslim...
cuz the Islam is to love all people,to help the poor people,to stop killing any one,to to be truthful with all people,to believe and worship one God is Allah ,and to not to be selfish and proud....this is the Islam,so for that I am muslim...and I don't care if people like I Islam or not....one day they will remembre that the Islam is a great relegion...

-any book you are talking about??He didn't write any book!!

joeyj 09-07-2009 07:00 AM


Tenchu 09-07-2009 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozyra (Post 769096)
But He did't kill any one.....

Honestly, I highly doubt that. I imagine he had the leaders of the enemy bought to him and cut their heads off himself. Doing this was pretty much tradition in those days, especially for Arabs.

It doesn't really matter, anyway. I'm not sure Hitler killed anyoneduring WW2, but that doesn't change public opinion, does it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozyra (Post 769100)
-He wasn't a murder....He was help all people and you don't have any signs that he was murder..

Yes, well, logically, what you say is hard to believe. He was an Arab tribal leader.

I don't think there's actual proof Genghis Khan killed anyone, either. But I reckon I'm safe to assume.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozyra (Post 769100)
I did't see in wikipedia that he was a murderer and a full blown pirate...
In koran ,any one steal anything from any one (muslim or not muslim)

Well, you see, when you "raid a caravan", that is piracy; stealing things that arn't yours from civilians.

They keep saying it's justified in the eye for an eye thing; i.e. they had shit stolen from them first (but given Muhammad was not the start of Arab history, it's safe to assume his ancestors had been stealing shit recklessly for thousands of years already, so the whole "he started it" finger pointing is kind of lame).

In the end, stealing is stealing. I don't always think it's bad, but that's what it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozyra (Post 769100)
In Islam if you don't like people more than your Brother ,you aren't muslim...
cuz the Islam is to love all people,to help the poor people,to stop killing any one,to to be truthful with all people,to believe and worship one God is Allah ,and to not to be selfish and proud....this is the Islam,so for that I am muslim...and I don't care if people like I Islam or not....

Yes, but you have to understand; you can say this all you like, but it sounds a bit hollow after 1,500 years of warfare and bloodshed and back stabbing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozyra (Post 769100)
one day they will remembre that the Islam is a great relegion...

How? Why? I don't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozyra (Post 769100)
-any book you are talking about??He didn't write any book!!

Well, some Muslims say he wrote the Quran, other say it was constructed after his death from his teachings.

I also find it hard to believe he wrote anything given he was illiterate, but, you know, that's how the tale goes.

Kozyra 09-07-2009 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 768811)
I said he was a dick. So what?

If I say Obama is a dick, do Americans jump up and down and say they're offended because I insulted their leader? No. They just rub it in your face that you lost the election (though, how they were supposed to win with Palin on their side, I can't quite figure).

So why should I be offending Muslims in saying their leader is a dick? I think you're being overly sensative.

Tench....It is very different ....Obama is Just a president....Mohammad is a Prophet...
Prophet Mohammad is more than a president...More than a hero...more than a leader...more than a friend....more than to talk about him that he was a dick
Mohammad means allthing for the muslim....he is a big part of Islam...becausecuz when you want to be muslim ,you must to said'' there isn't any God except Allah and Mohammad is a Allah's prophet''...

Tenchu 09-07-2009 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozyra (Post 769107)
Tench....It is very different ....Obama is Just a president....Mohammad is a Prophet...
Prophet Mohammad is more than a president...More than a hero...more than a leader...more than a friend....more than to talk about him that he was a dick
Mohammad means allthing for the muslim....he is a big part of Islam...becausecuz when you want to be muslim ,you must to said'' there isn't any God except Allah and Mohammad is a Allah's prophet''...

Yes, but you have to understand, not everyone in the world thinks he actually is a prophet. Actually, the larger majority of the world thinks he's deluded and a liar. You'll never change that.

So yeah, I think he was a bit of a dick. I can't change that, and you can't expect others to view him as a diety with the same respect when they think he was just a normal person.

noodle 09-07-2009 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenchu (Post 769108)
Yes, but you have to understand, not everyone in the world thinks he actually is a prophet. Actually, the larger majority of the world thinks he's deluded and a liar. You'll never change that.

Oh yeah? lol, and where did you get this notion from? You think that just because someone isn't muslim, it means that they don't believe he was a prophet?||????!?!?!?!?!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????? That's stupid!

Tenchu 09-07-2009 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodle (Post 769111)
Oh yeah? lol, and where did you get this notion from? You think that just because someone isn't muslim, it means that they don't believe he was a prophet?||????!?!?!?!?!!??!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????? That's stupid!

I don't understand. Wouldn't everyone who does believe he was instructed by God convert to Islam? Thus, by default, the majority think what I said?


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