Who's Your Hero?

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Yeah.

See, when you say "dirt", it ain't really dirt, it's like, coal from a fire, or shit from a horse. So where did that fire that made the ash come from? It came from gas. Were did the gas come from? It came from dead animals.

You know, everything comes from somewhere.

So, you keep going back and back and back, until oneday you get to a point where you're just before the big bang, and there's no fucking dimension for shit to exist in.

How can anything be a product of something before that when there was no place for it to exist in?

You know, you get to a point where there's no space and time. So answer me how you pull dirt out of that?

As for the creator comment, it's just plain fucking arrogance. Some things are better and more advanced than you and Ronin are. Yes, dirt isn't, so it's pretty easy for you to understand the way this dimension works. But when you go and say that a creator needs a creator, you're suggesting you're the final stage of evolution. You're it, the all understanding being.

I don't have to answer that question; it's about as stupid as someone asking me to count the grains of sand on the sunshine coast, and calling me lazy for not doing it.

The point is, there's no reason to assume something a bazzilion times greater than you are which resides in a moment of existence absent from both space and time needs a creator. I mean, that alone; God could not exist in a dimension, because he created dimensions, it makes you look pretty stupid. How the fuck is someone supposed to exist before you in order to create you if there is no time, no before?

Why don't you think it through for a bit. It seems to me you need a lot of thinking.

Of course, what I say is not conclusive; I'm just point out your arrogance.

This is where people struggle to understand. If dirt comes from coal fire, the coal fire does NOT create it. It's just a chemical reaction. In other words, plain transformation. All chemical reactions have the same law "Nothing is destroyed, nothing is created, everything is transformed".

Think of anything and you'll discover that nothing has been created as far as we know. All the chemical substances have existed. Now new element has been created.

Also, Big Bang is said to be the reason of this universe, there might have been other universe before. Or maybe before the Big Bang, there was emptiness, which is not the same as nothingness. Anyway, we can't even make 100% emptiness, vacuums are not perfect, so it's pure speculation.

Also, based on what you're saying it's becoming very hard to believe God exist. If he doesn't exist in any dimension or anything that we are in now, where does he exist?

If Big Bang created us, can it be counted as God?

[Tenchu]

Originally Posted by iPhantom

This is where people struggle to understand. If dirt comes from coal fire, the coal fire does NOT create it. It's just a chemical reaction. In other words, plain transformation. All chemical reactions have the same law "Nothing is destroyed, nothing is created, everything is transformed".

Think of anything and you'll discover that nothing has been created as far as we know. All the chemical substances have existed. Now new element has been created.

What do you think I'm stupid? That's what I meant. Yes, it's the transformation. Whatever; point is, each transformation turns it into a new product that is a biproduct of the last event. You can trace them back.

Originally Posted by iPhantom

Also, Big Bang is said to be the reason of this universe, there might have been other universe before. Or maybe before the Big Bang, there was emptiness, which is not the same as nothingness. Anyway, we can't even make 100% emptiness, vacuums are not perfect, so it's pure speculation.

The big bounce is the same as the big bang. There still has to be a point somewhere where it started.

Time and space can be taken away (or, in your view, taken away to be recycled, but it still is an end to existence as we know it). They are physical things. Try and shove that brick through your ear and you should understand.

Upon taking them away, that matter that continuously recycles in the physical world transforms into something else. I'm not arrogant enough to guess what, exactley, but.

It's up to you to use your brain that at some point in time, there was no time. If you think eternity stretches in both directions, that's up to you, but it makes you just another believer, same as religous folk.

Originally Posted by iPhantom

Also, based on what you're saying it's becoming very hard to believe God exist. If he doesn't exist in any dimension or anything that we are in now, where does he exist?

We're unable to answer that. We're not smart enough. Our brains were made to cut wood, carry water, not mentally reconstruct the most pure manner of existence that's ever existed. We've about us much chance of figuring this answer out as a buffalo does.

Originally Posted by iPhantom

If Big Bang created us, can it be counted as God?

Well, if there was a state where there was no time and space, thus no eternity for things to be recycled in, then when the first big bang occured, it must have been triggered by something.

I mean, shit don't just magically explode one day; bombs have detonators or timers, "God".

Don't get me wrong, I think these religous nuts are as crazy as Ronin is, just like you. But I'm trying to show you there may be elements that are beyond your understanding, and it's foolish to be so damn conclusive.

I view the thing that triggered the big bang to just be another elemental thing, rather than a concious being. I mean, conciousness requires time in order to plot and be self aware in. This is unrealistic thing to think about God (which should replace your question "Who created God?" with "Who created the time that God sat in in order to think about creating time?" See? Religous folk are dumb, but not much more than you). He could be no more concious than fire or water. At the same time, there's really little we do know about it; however, to simply assume no spiritual element at all is involved is also arrogance.

Can I ask you a question; what's the difference between you and your computer? I mean, we could programme a computer to constantly ponder it's an individual, but you know it wouldn't be the same, would it? There's an element inside you beyond a simple mental trigger to say you're an individual; there's something that makes your conciousness more valid than a robot would ever be. What is it?

[urca]

Fux sake...

Put it this way; people also thought Charles Manson was a prophet. Should we show him unconditional respect just because others thought it necessary? I don't think so.

You cannot expect people to unconditionally respect a man who they view as nothing more than a deluded tribal master.

'they view'
the mistake is from you and 'the people',since you didnt read about prophet muhammed,dont talk 'bout em,especially that your view is a bit narrow,that you barely know a thing or two 'bout prophet muhammed.

If I knew this was your only problem with Islam, I woulda given you the answer a long time ago.

The way it works, is very very very simple... You get someone that wants to be in power. He starts off by creating a version of the Qur'an, that he wants. And I'm not talking about translated versions either, pure arabic versions. I read one of these once. The first page, a verse which said in the proper Qur'an that you should defend yourself against Christians and Jews should they attack you, your faith, your family or those around you was turned into "You should Kill ALL Jews and Christians, they are infidels"! That's the first step.

Then you get them while they're young. Brainwash them while they're young and get them to do whatever you want by misquoting verses or just quoting changed verses. This is very simple to do, and it even happens in better off countries like France and Algeria. I avoid most of my muslims friends because they never thought to themselves, they were force fed the religion. They even go as far as to say failing their exam was "the will of Allah". Everything is the will of Allah to them, as if we have no control over what we do!

That's all it is! Get someone in power, he gets his own version of the qur'an written, and brainwashes people. Then all the small things in between. Poverty used as an excuse "We are suffering because we haven't been good muslims. We haven't defeneded our land from the Americans or Jews, so go forth my children and kill, save this land for the next generation! GO!!!!"

So, in all honesty, people that have read the Qur'an out of their own will, and really wanted to understand without being forced into it will have misinterpretations about the scientific stuff in it, the social stuff, or even the afterlife stuff! No one ever argues about whether it's okay to kill or hurt someone. In the most simplest terms, the Qur'an's main message is to always further your studies and try to be the best at whatever you persue, and to always treat humans and all of god's creations with the utmost respect! If you do these things, you are already a pretty good muslim.

in arabic,thats called المذاهب
our prophet even spoke 'bout it that there will be 70 or 73 beleifs,69 or 72 will go to hell,one will go to heaven.
and those beleifs none follows it except ignorants and ones who looks for their benefits
and all of the muslims knows 'bout those beleifs,and they know that the only right beleif is al sunnah wal jama'aah's beleif,unlike the other ones that it would need a whole book to talk about.
and none got a new version of quran by the way,quran is one only and it wont change,in saudi arabia theyre working on printing a translated quran for muslims in europe n america n africa,cuz of the fail tries to fake out quran

[Miyavifan]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

No. Until you pointed the "hate crime" finger, I was having a perfectly normal conversation about Heros. Other people (*cough*Ronin*cough*) call my Heros weeners, and I settled for just calling them gay in return. Why do you refuse to accept some people do not like everyone you like and have to take it a step further?

Yeah, well... I dunno what to say about that. I'm just a bit disgruntled they bombed the f*c*i*g s*i* out of Lebanon and no one gave a f*c* whatsoever.

You know, that kind of stuff can really hurt a caring person. If I'm anti-Jew (not anti-semetic; please state where I said anything against blood), then so be it! It's just, you know, some people have to stand up for these pushed around minorities.

Anti-semitic is pretty much being anti-Jewish.

Antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[kMal]

Originally Posted by Miyavifan

Anti-semitic is pretty much being anti-Jewish.

Antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And anti-Arabic.

[Miyavifan]

well, ok......

[Ryzorian]

Actually, I've read parts of the Qur'an, it just isn't for me. I'm too independant to do half that stuff.

I suppose it can be confuseing for all sides sometimes, after all Christians worship Christ because they believe he's the Son of God. Muslims aren't into that. It becomes difficult to hold conversations, simply because nobody from any side, really believes anything anyone else from any other side is saying anyway.

Consider this. If person A believes the Color Red is God, person B believes the color Blue is God, and person C believes the color Green is God. How could any of them talk to each other about said colors? They allready have thier personal notion of what color God is, and the other colors don't matter.

However, does earth consist of one color? Does space? Do humans?

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

What do you think I'm stupid? That's what I meant. Yes, it's the transformation. Whatever; point is, each transformation turns it into a new product that is a biproduct of the last event. You can trace them back.

You used that as an argument against my post about the creator.

Time and space can be taken away (or, in your view, taken away to be recycled, but it still is an end to existence as we know it). They are physical things. Try and shove that brick through your ear and you should understand.

Upon taking them away, that matter that continuously recycles in the physical world transforms into something else. I'm not arrogant enough to guess what, exactly, but.

It's up to you to use your brain that at some point in time, there was no time. If you think eternity stretches in both directions, that's up to you, but it makes you just another believer, same as religous folk.

What do you think I'm stupid? That's what I meant. And no, religious folks have a book to back them up... to build up my theory I base on science. Whether you can see the difference is up to you.

We're unable to answer that. We're not smart enough. Our brains were made to cut wood, carry water, not mentally reconstruct the most pure manner of existence that's ever existed. We've about us much chance of figuring this answer out as a buffalo does.

Yet we're smart enough to say such an entity exists?

Well, if there was a state where there was no time and space, thus no eternity for things to be recycled in, then when the first big bang occured, it must have been triggered by something.

I mean, shit don't just magically explode one day; bombs have detonators or timers, "God".

Don't get me wrong, I think these religous nuts are as crazy as Ronin is, just like you. But I'm trying to show you there may be elements that are beyond your understanding, and it's foolish to be so damn conclusive.

I view the thing that triggered the big bang to just be another elemental thing, rather than a concious being. I mean, conciousness requires time in order to plot and be self aware in. This is unrealistic thing to think about God (which should replace your question "Who created God?" with "Who created the time that God sat in in order to think about creating time?" See? Religous folk are dumb, but not much more than you). He could be no more concious than fire or water. At the same time, there's really little we do know about it; however, to simply assume no spiritual element at all is involved is also arrogance.

Using 'you're dumb' too much won't make your point more valid. You're actually comparing Big Bang to a detonator o.O! Worse, you say that God didn't exist in this dimension so he doesn't need to be created. Following your logic everything that was before this dimension doesn't need a creator (unless you now add a new rule that only God is an exception which is what religious folks do and it's completely illogical) for Big Bang, it was the reason this dimension was created, but it wasn't in it in the start. Why this one needs a creator?

Can I ask you a question; what's the difference between you and your computer? I mean, we could programme a computer to constantly ponder it's an individual, but you know it wouldn't be the same, would it? There's an element inside you beyond a simple mental trigger to say you're an individual; there's something that makes your conciousness more valid than a robot would ever be. What is it?

I don't get why you brought this up.

[MMM]

This thread is out of control. Religious talk, insults, and profanity are not allowed and if they continue the thread will be closed. That includes everyone.

[Kozyra]

Originally Posted by Ryzorian

Actually, I've read parts of the Qur'an, it just isn't for me. I'm too independant to do half that stuff.

I suppose it can be confuseing for all sides sometimes, after all Christians worship Christ because they believe he's the Son of God. Muslims aren't into that. It becomes difficult to hold conversations, simply because nobody from any side, really believes anything anyone else from any other side is saying anyway.

Consider this. If person A believes the Color Red is God, person B believes the color Blue is God, and person C believes the color Green is God. How could any of them talk to each other about said colors? They allready have thier personal notion of what color God is, and the other colors don't matter.

However, does earth consist of one color? Does space? Do humans?

well....I will tell you that there is one God and I will prove:
for example:
if there are three presidents for one country ...I don't think that this country will be alive for one week...and then it will die...because every president want a thing and manage what he want....and one day they will fight and do more of that.....
if you see....there's no country have two president ..all countrys in the world have one president ..the same thing happened to world......there's one God for this world and for this space
in your example....I think there's one Real color and the others are not real and illusion ....
sorry but I am very busy...I would to explain more...