Tea-Party Rallys
 

Tea Parties: Ignoring their Ignorance


I’m struggling with the whole ‘Tea Party’ movement. It was only a few months ago that I was singing the praises of these well-meaning patriots, with only this single criticism of the Tea Partiers: That they are focusing too much on Obama, like he’s the source, the cause of our nations woes.

Well, this problem has only gotten worse. While I’m proud that people from varied backgrounds are coming together to utilize their Constitutional right to assembly and free speech, I wish there wasn’t an overwhelming ‘Blame Obama’ theme, when the truth is that every President (nearly every National politician, for that matter) we’ve had in the last several decades and longer has been part of the same problem.

The problem is that we’re printing money out of thin air. Obama may be doing it to a higher degree than recent presidents, but when you have a national policy of inflation, due to printing money that doesn’t actually represent wealth, it’s inevitable that each president be forced (by the Federal Reserve Bank) to print more than their predecessor just to keep this nationwide Ponzi scheme afloat. That is, until the inevitable conclusion comes, which is the total loss of confidence in the US dollar. That’s exactly what these Globalists, not just Obama, but Bush Jr. and Sr., and Clinton, and most of Congress, have been working towards for years. It’s an ideology of Globalism, and undermining the US economy is a sure fire way to bring about the dissolution of the United States, towards a New World Order (yeah, I said it), where our Constitutional considerations will no longer be stumbling block in the way of a World Government.

The shock for average Americans will be, after this earth-shaking political conversion takes place, that many of our current leaders will still be in power after this transition from Nationalism to Globalism takes place. And they won’t all be Democrats. There will be just as many of our former Republicans towing the line of Globalism, as long as they keep their jobs in ‘public service’.

We must remember, as the Protest movement continues, that education is the key. Don’t get mad at Obama’s stimulus, get mad at Bush and Obama’s stimulus. But don’t stop there, go back to 1913, and get mad at Woodrow Wilson’s traitorous action of instituting the Federal Reserve (privately owned) Banking System. But don’t take it from me, read this quote from President Wilson himself, from several years after he became a traitor to the United States:

"I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men."
-Woodrow Wilson

There it is, Woodrow Wilson’s famous quote, where he admits his mistake, a mistake that he says has changed the entire structure of our People-powered Government.

How about we take it back a little further, before the banking take-over had fully taken place:

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them, will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
- Thomas Jefferson

(Sound familiar? Kind of like this sub-prime mortgage scheme, right? Ed.)

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the Government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.”
- Thomas Jefferson

“If congress has the right under the Constitution to issue paper money, it was given them to use themselves, not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.”
- Andrew Jackson


“All the perplexities, confusion and distresses in America arise not from defects in the constitution or confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, as much from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation.”
- John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce."
- US President James A. Garfield

How about a few quotes from Obama’s favorite president, Abraham Lincoln:

“The money power preys on the nation in times of peace, and conspires against it in times of adversity. It is more despotic than monarchy, more insolent than autocracy, more selfish than bureaucracy. It denounces, as public enemies, all who question its methods or throw light upon its crimes.”
- Abraham Lincoln

“The Government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the spending power of the Government and the buying power of consumers. By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest. Money will cease to be master and become the servant of humanity.”
- Abraham Lincoln


Here’s a quote from Alan Greenspan, the longtime Chairman of the Federal Reserve (Privately Owned) Bank. From the horse’s mouth, you might say:

“[The] abandonment of the gold standard made it possible for the welfare statists to use the banking system as a means to an unlimited expansion of credit.... In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holdings illegal, as was done in the case of gold.... The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.... [This] is the shabby secret of the welfare statist's tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the 'hidden' confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights.”
- Alan Greenspan in an article he wrote in 1966, before he became Chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank.

How about more modern examples of a concerted effort in within our Government by traitors to our Nation:

"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."
- Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, Time Magazine, July 20th, l992

“Some even believe we (the Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.”
- David Rockefeller, Memoirs, page 405

These quotes represent a very, very small portion of the available quotes regarding this problem. Space does not permit to fully explore the available information, but maybe some of the effort put fort by these Tea Partiers would be better spent at the library, learning what it is they are protesting against. Ignorance can only lead to more of the same.

So, in conclusion, don’t blame Obama, he’s just going along with a standard operating procedure that has been in place for a very long time. To quote a modern poet:

“Don’t Hate the Player, Hate the Game.”
-Mac Dre

I'm struggling with the whole ida of why there are so many thread with no bearing on Japan whatsoever.

Bored regulars.

The international monetary system is definitely significant to Japan.

It isn't like that's a new thing. Actually, it's improved from compared to a while back. But let's keep the responses to the topic.

Ok so whats these crappy tea party's about eh? The government both Democrats and Republicans suck (a hole lot) But I'm hearing a lot about the people who come to these things. So who are the people who attend? why do they? And are they just there because they hate the president over who he is?

Great, more politics...

Reason: Nutters like to congregate in groups while wearing funny hats and carrying signs.

Ironically, in Japan a tea party would prolly actually be about tea.

As to who teaparty folks are in the states. In a nutshell, they are generally folks who think federal government is WAY WAY too big. I tend to be a libertarian/constitutionalist, so I agree with them for the most part. Though yes, It isn't just Obama..the federal government has been growing incrementally for decades reguardless of who was president.

I think they're just the repubs and conservatives and right wingers who didn't get McCain and are pissed so they're taking it out on Obama. Yes, the economy sucks, but whose fault is that? Also, which president did nothing to stop it, even spurred it on? Uh, Bush. If anybody undermined everything about the States and the Constitution it was Bush. Obama is cleaning up the mess right now, and he's got a long way to go. Why are people being so critical of him? Yeesh. Like I said, they're just mad they don't have someone in office to ruin the country and make the world hate us for another 4 years.

The world hates us because we are us, hate to burst your bubble on that. Powerful nations are hated because they are powerful, it's the nature of the game.

The economic collapse was caused by stupid loans being given to people who never should have had them. It was done through mandatory law put in place By Chris Dodd and Barny Frank and signed in 1999 by Clinton. Bush warned about that situation in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006, and 2007. Each time it was rebuffed by Frank and Dodd who claimed it was just "republicans" trying to wage war on poor people. Bush's main fault was not stopping that crap before it got out of hand.

This situation is going to get much worse with how things are now. The great depression was compounded for years, by government getting in the way. This will be no different.

No one president is to blame for the state our country is in..
The presidents we have elected lately have just been rather horrid.
People blamed everything on bush when he was in office,
but now that he isn't in office anymore, it does no good to complain about him.

SO people move on to the next object that they are able to vent on.
OBAMA! Assuming that venting their accumulated anger at the current president will do any good they gather and protest.. But it will get them nowhere.

Our nation is arrogant and falling to ruin, at an ever increasing rate.
The only way to fix what has been destroyed, would be to reinstate true democracy.. Which many Americans would be happy to do, but because of the power the current shit hole we call our govt. has that will never happen.

Interesting alternative opinion.

I don't agree with everything he says, but I like his angle.

the oft-stated logic of "government out of my life" is a fantasy existence you've never experienced, and that you'd whimper in fear over were you ever subjected to it for an instant. Make a list of the industries you're aware of: medical, chemical, automobile, steel, housing, whatever. Each and every one of them would crush you with glee without government regulations if it added to their profits by one one-millionth of a percentage point. They'd sell the juice they squeezed out of you as a refreshment drink, if they could get away with it. As corrupt and inefficient as your government is (and it clearly is), it's the only thing keeping you alive moment to moment. Reform it, by all means. Keep it honest. Throw out the bums who aren't protecting you adequately enough. But, end its involvement in your life? Scale it back? You're kidding yourself. That's a joke. Take one look back at history (please, just one look!), and see how workers, and children, and consumers are now protected where they were once injured and exploited. That's called "progress," and we're hoping to add a little more.

Hmmmm... the American PEOPLE are hated as a result of being fat, loud, obnoxious, and ignorant, most noticeably the tourists, those on whom other countries base their opinions of the nation at large on. The government is hated because it had really crappy foreign policy for the past 8 years. Oh, and everyone knew Bush was an idiot. EVERYBODY.

Yes, yes, we know.

If you said this a few months ago I'd agree. We already passed that point. Look at the stock charts. Things are getting better. THIS recession was compounded for years, and the shit hit the fan HARD last fall. It bottomed out recently and has been slowly recovering since. It's slow, but it's happening.

Anyway, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, tea parties.

What is true democracy, by the way?

The American model – democracy – must be regarded as a historical error, economically as well as morally. Democracy promotes shortsightedness, capital waste, irresponsibility, and moral relativism. It leads to permanent compulsory income and wealth redistribution and legal uncertainty. It is counterproductive. It promotes demagoguery and egalitarianism. It is aggressive and potentially totalitarian internally, vis-à-vis its own population, as well as externally. In sum, it leads to a dramatic growth of state power, as manifested by the amount of parasitically – by means of taxation and expropriation – appropriated government income and wealth in relation to the amount of productively – through market exchange – acquired private income and wealth, and by the range and invasiveness of state legislation. Democracy is doomed to collapse, just as Soviet communism was doomed to collapse.

Hans-Hermann Hoppe's "Demokratie. Der Gott, Der Keiner Ist"

Are you subscribing to someone else's ideology rather than forging out your own? Come on man, just READ that paragraph and a rational mind will see all that's wrong with it. It's a classic case of tunnel vision.

Let's all just keep in mind that Democracy--which has been implemented in countless other societies to great success--is an idea that came from humans. Humans are imperfect beings and as such imperfections are bound to arise. Live with it :) If you don't like it, go live somewhere in Africa, the Middle East, China, or North Korea where you don't have any need for silly things like freedom.

There's a reason the United States has historically been called "the Great Experminet"!

Before you conclude your reading of this statement as a well-tailored opinion, the uninformed should know that Hans-Hermann Hoppe is by no means a main-stream thinker. He thinks all security should be run by private, for-profit organizations. Eliminate fire, police, court systems, prisons etc. and make them all private. In my opinion these ideas (Anarcho-capitalism) are untested and insane. Actually they aren't completely untested...we have private security forces in Iraq. The problem is, private security forces are for profit. Therefore there is no vested interest in ending war...any war...as to end it puts yourself out of a job. Now apply that to police, fire, court systems, etc.

Have you ever heard of windshield glass companies breaking car windows? Corrupt private tow-truck companies? Private ambulance companies getting paid off to take patients to certain hospitals, even if they were father away? This is "no government regulation". Again, imagine if your police station, prison, and fire house were all for profit...and we complain about government corruption now.

Well thank goodness, at least 1 other person besides me on these boards knows the real reason for the economic collapse. GTJ, if you knew about this, why spout the lies about Bush spurring it on? He warned about it, tried to stop it, but didn't try hard enough IMO.

By the way Ryzorian, as I'm sure you know, Frank, Dodd, and many others collected huge campaign donations from Fannie and Freddy for many years. But in the space of less than 2 years, a certain young Senator from Illinois surpassed all recipients total amounts except Chris Dodd. That Senator hit them extra hard, threatening lawsuits for racial discrimination if they wouldn't lend to minorities whose credit ratings and background suggested they were unlikely to ever be able to repay the loan. But the Senator assured them that the US govt would bail them out if/when the loans were defaulted on...

lol, "spouting lies". This sounds like... Big Brother? Or fundamentalism. Or extremism. Or right-wingers. Or something like that. spouting lies... honestly. Who even uses the word "lies" like that anymore! Just because you don't agree doesn't make it a "lie". Silly repubs. :D

The economic collapse was the result of a 100 years of inflation from an unfounded monetary system.

And this concept, if applied to everything I'm talking about, is exactly what our Government is doing (on a grand scale) with our money!

So move somewhere else.

So no regulation is bad, and having regulation is bad.

No win.

This brings up another popular debate (also in regards to the tea parties). Profit. Profit is not a bad thing in the right place. Some take comfort that a doctor or surgeon is working for profit. Profit isn't evil. Most of us survive on profit, and its a necessary insensitive in most industries.

There are places for profit. Same for amount of regulation in the free market.

Government run entities and government regulation are different concepts. I'd like to see government regulation for a flyer's bill of rights for the airlines. I'd like to see less government run entities to attempt to fix problems.

I think what you are saying is there should be a happy medium for government regulation and private/for profit industry - which a majority of both sides would agree. These tea parties are the result of finding that medium.

I think the tea parties are all kinds of things to all kinds of people.

I agree profit isn't a bad thing, but I just heard an interesting statistic the other day. I do not remember the exact numbers, but in an argument for the public auction it was brought up that the largest (or maybe second largest) insurance company in the US had administrative budget that was about 25% of it's total budget. That meant 25% of the money people gave each month to the insurance company went to things that were not health care. On the other hand people talk about how wasteful beauracracies are, but Medicare (gov't run healthcare) has an administrative budget of only 2% of total costs.

I do agree with you, that regulation and administration are two very different things, and I believe there needs to be more regulation in areas like health insurance and the airline industry. But I think people don't realize that there are gov't run health systems already in place (Medicare, Medicaid, the VA). Are the perfect? No, some far from it, but at least they are more affordable. And I would happily buy into an affordable health care system that didn't turn me down when I needed help than they expensive system I have now that turns me down more often than accepts me when I need help.

America was taken off the Gold standard by FDR and the Silver Standard by Nixon. But the bad loan situation is what started the current mess. It really hasn't pulled out of it's tailspin either, the 'recovery" is just a thin shell, we will have to see what happens through this next year. Government getting involved though, will just extend the problem.

The US isn't a true Democracy by the way, It's a Republic. Leastways, that's how it was orginally designed. True Democracy is basically mob rule, kinda Like how France ended up with Napolean.

I admit that American tourists can be glareingly stupid and ignorant. They are generally really whiny here at home too....sigh.

Samurai007...that certain senator also utilzed Acorn to push sub prime loans through those same banks.

It depends. I think, as an average South Korean, American politics is a huge joke. You don't suppose to be too optimist in politics.

And huge failures as well. Like Communism.

Well, I wouldn't mind America turning undemocratic because 20th century political ideas are very limited.

more like a failed experiment.

To call America a "failed experiment" to me is the epitome of a close-minded statement.

Despite I used to live in America? Come on, America's politics has been stagnated since the end of the Cold War.

What are you talking about? Just look at how Obama stirred interest in American politics in not only the US but all over the world.

But even if politics in America were stagnated since the Cold War, how that makes the entire history of America a "failed experiment" is completely beyond me.

I think there is a lot of exaggerations going on both sides when it comes to the health insurance that get snowballed into these tea parties.

However when we throw out some sort, "interesting statistic we remembered the other day, but haven't got the details other than maybe the second largest, 25% admistrative budget, the other 75% going to health care", when we aren't really explaining how this adminstrative budge is for this company is defined (as companies define their admin budgets differently depending of the nature and operations of the company)... Then compare apples to oranges (medicare to private insurance companies adminstrative budgets)... while Obama plans to partly pay for a public option "waistful spending" of these existing programs... <inhale>... I'm going to call this a tea party making comment. Thus I going to call "fact check" here...



While I'm hesitant to feed into a majority of insurance companies are greedy cancelling policies left and right when the customer comes to use their policy. It may be, I don't know.. but when the president's speech two examples of two people being denied coverage aren't necessarily the case as he described them url link::

How Robin Beaton Became Exhibit A in Obama Versus the Insurers - Bloomberg.com


I'm thinking... didn't someone do a fact check here, or know that someone would, so lets get a proper example? But leads me to believe we are doing what ever we can to sell this to the public.


How much is the question though. The trillion dollar question that won't add to the deficit but bring down 4 trillion over 10 years.

[/quote]

Yes, definitely we need some reform/regulation to private insurance companies. Like, if you insure someone, make sure BEFORE they make the policy active that the company is locked into the policy. I think its crazy for these private companies to tell some they are insured and then be able to revoke the policy for whatever reason.....i.e. once that policy is active and you are paying the premium, it stays. Its ridiculous for someone to be paying for a premium thinking they are insured then to think the company can just cancel the policy based on something they could of checked on before the policy was active.

At the same time I don't expect private insurance companies to be able to compete with the public option if they can't cross state lines while being unable to deny anyone a policy that is worth anything. There are so many variables to this equation, its staggering. We would all love for what Obama and his administration are proposing to be a reality, but he is painting it so rosey for this big program and that is the ONLY option (he has made that clear its now my way or the highway) and something so dark as the problem that needs to be addressed now now now that its hard for many to take in.

With past and current government spending and government program track records; I want to see something done right or some massive savings in a failing government run entity before we give the okay to take on an economy in such danger. Impliment fixing that waistful spending of medicare now...stop making people angry with the craziness we've seen recently (Cash for Clunkers, $550 million for 8 new congression jets, selective bail-outs, the post office, the country failing infrastructure such as bridges, levies etc) this list goes on. I want reform or some simple regulation that doesn't look like is going to bankrupt the country... I don't want to hear many well know economists who are almost never wrong to say "this is unsustainable"... I not getting the warm fuzzies from this.

If anything though, this has made more people watch the government like a hawk, and god help the next administration if this goes through and it doesn't work.

What does either of those above statements have to do with the other in addition to America being a "failed experiment"?


Just utter confusion on how you could defend ( or make ) a statement like that.

clintjm, I won't harp on individual points, because I agree with what you are saying more than disagreeing.

Healthcare in the US is fundamentally flawed. I know it because I have seen it with my own two eyes. I know people that fly to Japan to get medical procedures done because the insurance they pay for refuses to treat them and it is cheaper to buy a plane ticket and fly to Japan to get medical help than it is to do it here.

No other industrialized nation in the world has no national health plan. Are they all perfect? Far from it...but some are better than others. Regardless, what we have now stinks. It's partially because of our litigious nature, but health care are too high for the average American to pay for them. As a result we all end up paying more. SOMETHING needs to be done. I don't think the president is saying "my way or the highway"...he said the very opposite last Wednesday. But I agree killing his plan for the sake of killing it is not an option unless you have an alternative strategy. Enough of not facing the health care issue.

A quote from L'arc en ciel (History's repeating why can't we just live as one?)...or it may repeat and become worse.

“When a government is dependent upon [federal] bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes… Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.” – Napoleon Bonaparte, 1815

I've heard these cases too where someone flies home to get treatment. But I want to see these example holding a gold plated insurance policy in both their home country and in the US. Every time I hear the real details of these cases, it always turns out that insurance plans are a comparison of apples to oranges, or simply there wasn't any health plan held in the US.

At the same time we will never refuse treatment at the ER no matter who you are, no matter if one can pay it our not, no matter if you just have a cut on their finger or need a $50 aspirin.

"Fundamentally" though I think may be a bit strong, as the administrative will have us believe.

Well, what I got from the speech was "my door is always open" followed by, as long as the public option is in the plan. And basically Tort reform may be something we need to look at, and I'll have my trial lawyer look into putting trial lawyers out of business; not going to happen.

Lets be clear about that "Health care" isn't flawed, it health insurance and the cost of care that is high. All human beings deserve access to quality health care. Thats a faith principle. The US has that. The US is #1 in responsiveness to a medical emergency.

I don't want to the US be another Canada situation. I don't want to see what the US has that does work, broken by this. The administration is at the point now where it can do real reform and regulation, but to tune out all other options besides a public option at the unsustainable cost proposed seems a bit reckless.

These are all very good points to see these issues from both sides.

Break up insurance monopolies, prevent stupid law suits, done. It wasn't even that hard. We sure as hell don't need a government run system, you really can't use France or Canada as an example, the US is multiple times bigger than either of those countries. Size is the enemy here, a car needs so many feet to stop, a train needs a hell of a lot more than that and the US would be a really big train.

The other thing you need to consider is this....Darth Vader....I know it sounds dumb, but you put that much power into the hands of a few, it becomes dangerous because invaribly someone like Darth Vader ends up in charge. History shows this to be true time and time again.

Watch and weep.

But yet, our health care rates among the best. Would it also be the slumping dollar that is also the reason why health care prices are up? I would suspect once the economy reaches a certain level, inflation would go down, thus causing health care prices to mellow out, and probably go down.

They are exactly doing things there way without input from Republicans.He's so rock solid towards a public plan that he willing to kill health care for it, then in his speech he badly snips bi-partisanship. Polls reflect this. tort reform (it's a big issue, to which they don't address at all), let health care providers compete nationwide (when you have only one or two in a single state that is a problem), insurance tax subsidy more fair, and Low-income supplemental debit card of $5,000. Republicans ARE facing the issue. Point is you don't trade a worn system for one that going to be broken. Obama Has yet to find a definitive way to pay for a public option and one of the ways that keeps popping up he criticized John McCain for considering.


Obama’s Health Care Speech | FactCheck.org

the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office has found that Democratic plans in the House and Senate both would add hundreds of billions of dollars to the federal deficit over the coming decade.

In his speech, the president reduced the price tag, saying "the plan I’m proposing will cost around $900 billion over 10 years." That’s about $100 billion less than what the CBO said the House bill would cost. And the president embraced a tax on expensive employer-paid health plans, something he’s resisted in the past. He also said there will be a provision in this plan that "requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don’t materialize."

But it remains to be seen whether the CBO’s budget experts will agree that the plan would be fully paid for. For that, they’ll need to see more specific details.
Obama: [T]hose of us with health insurance are also paying a hidden and growing tax for those without it – about $1,000 per year that pays for somebody else’s emergency room and charitable care.

That figure comes from a study by Families USA estimating the effect on premiums of uncompensated care, which is care that is provided to the uninsured but not paid for. But that group advocates vigorously for wider government health coverage.The figure is not supported by the Kaiser Family Foundation or the Congressional Budget Office. Both have reported that uncompensated care actually leads to lower hospital profits, not higher premiums. KFF’s estimate of the amount of uncompensated care shifted to premium-payers works out to about $200 per family per year, not $1,000.

Current Events - Rasmussen Reports

/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

Fifty-three percent (53%) say passage of the plan will make the cost of health care go up while 17% say it will make costs go down. In August, 52% thought the plan would lead to higher costs, and 17% thought it would achieve the stated goal of lowering costs.

If the plan passes, 24% of voters say the quality of care will get better and 50% say it will get worse. In August, the numbers were 23% better and 50% worse.

The most important fundamental is that 68% of American voters have health insurance coverage they rate good or excellent

You are totally misinformed. The world does not hate you because you are you - that is what your country has led you to believe, and in fact, if you actually think about it, its absolutely insane.

Do you really think that the entire population of earth was busy doing their work Professors, doctors, brain surgeons, scientists, teachers by the million and then all of a sudden one day they all woke up and said "WE ALL HATE AMERICA FOR NO RATIONAL REASON" :ywave:

It's because America is responsible for so much death and destruction around the world, it is now almost impossible to calculate. REALLY ! that is the reason people hate America - for the hypocrisy which it revels in.

Honestly, if i thought you were actually going to change your mind i would list WAR CRIME AFTER WAR CRIME after GENOCIDE AFTER TERRORISM that America has perpetrated, but then again whats the point? being an american would you actually care lol