You say "real" engine thrust, so even you can tell that there was at least some evidence that the boat was moving forward.

You can see the prop wash behind the Ady Gil, indicating that the boat was moving forward under power, not reversing as the skipper stated. Based on his poor actions and false statements, if this skipper has a captain's license, I hope he loses it.

Even if what the Sea Shepherd group is saying was true, you have to realize that the turning circle of a ship cruising at speed can be more than one kilometer. Had the Ady Gil not been playing chicken with the ship in the first place (which is utterly stupid), then it wouldn't have been sunk.

I think commercial whaling is stupid as well, but it is not tacitly illegal. Until the laws are changed to be more specific, the Japanese "research" whaling program is legal.

Maritime Law (COLREGS).

Part B, Sec. 2, Paragraph 13 states "An overtaking vessel must keep well clear of the vessel being overtaken".

Paragraph 18 states "A power-driven vessel must give way to a vessel not under command (or) a vessel restricted in ability to maneuver."

whalers had the right of way.

Thank you to MMM for clearing that up for me.

I have stated before that I do not agree with whaling. I believe it should be illegal, and that the Japanese research program should be ended. However, that does not mean I believe that the people who are currently taking part in it deserve to be hunted down in their homes, etc. Groups should be focusing on having laws changed, on pushing things via more normal routes. That was the point I was trying to make, in response to a post that was later edited to go over the line of mod tolerance.

Strange
 

How a relatively slow-speed whaler could ram a speed-bot?

Regardless of your opinion on what it actually is - that is what it is officially called.

Ah yes, one of ze topics where adlts get all bombastic and complicated making kids scratch their head and wonder What in ze world they are talking about.

I think I get the idea, but how does it develope into a five page conversation with paragraphs and paragraphs of text?

But how do you have such a big debateover zis?

I don't know if this is the same boat that is involved int "The Whale Wars" tv show, but if it is, that's nicer than they deserve. Honestly, they are lucky they dont have a Japanese Destroyer come over and sink thier dumb asses.

I'm not apposed to being against whaleing, but some of what they do is way against the grain, it's almost piracy. Japan should ask for American help, everyone knows how Obama handles pirates.

It was stated by someone earlier that the footage was aired on Japanese news quite a bit? Is there a general consensus on the topic from the people of Japan or is it a mixed option?

I personally think that both parties are ethically in the wrong. I believe the hunting of wales is unnecessary but i just as strongly believe that the actions taken by those vigilante groups are dangerous and ultimately will not effective.

Events like this unfortunately spark racist tension, and that is towards both Japanese and Australians.

I would say the general consensus is that Sea Shepard was in the wrong in this accident. The news presents the statements from Sea Shepard and from the Japanese side and just pretty much shows the footage. There is really little opinion presented over whose fault it is, but the footage is (in my opinion) pretty clear... And will be even more clear to the huge number of people in Japan involved with fishing or operating a sea vessel.

Honestly, I don`t really know anyone who thinks that whaling is the right thing to do, or who believes that it is necessary at all. Anyone Japanese who I have talked about the subject with really feel that the whole thing is silly and that there is no real reason to continue with the program. When meat was tested and it was found that more had been taken than was allowed, there was a ton of outrage IN Japan too. If there was more activism on this front, in actually monitoring without attacking - testing without stealing (as happened in the previous case...), etc - then there would be more people in Japan pushing to have the program put to an end. As it stands, Sea Shepard and the like have made their image so horrible that even the people in Japan who HATE whaling with a passion hesitate to speak out against it because they don`t want to be associated with that time of activist group...

At the same time most japanese don't think that whaling is the wrong thing to do at heart.They think whaling doesn't matter to them.
Maybe, Japanese who Nyororin have talked about the subject with didn't take it so seriously too. And japanese know Gaijin tend to be against whaling.
but,I can't know their true meaning,of course.

Thinking if there were no militant, more people in Japan would stand up for whales is maybe wrong.Japanese people are not so interested in Whaling .

btw,this thread seems calm enough to ask an essential question now.
I'm not interested in the collision now. I think ,as someone said already,there are many things we don't know now.Screaming "they are to blame!" with only watching a few short footage doesn't make any sense.

Why do you think whaling is the wrong thing to do?
I'm a cruel, barbaric　japanese , not good at english and not more cleverer than whales. :mtongue:
So plese tell me as simple as you can in easy english.

I cant speak for everyone. But I think fishing or hunting anything till the point of extinction is wrong. I am not against eating whale or any animal for that matter. Every person has their own view of what is common to eat. I dont think anyone has the right to tell other people what is okay to eat and not okay to eat. But when certain species are becoming extinct, i think these type of events should be stopped.

Thank you! I agree with you perfectly.I think most japanese agree with you.

next question
SEA SHEPHERD and their supporters think Minke whale's are becoming extinct.
In Japan’s Whale Research Program in the Antarctic,they are hunting mainly Minke whale.Although Minke whale is listed on IUCN red list, but their Conservation status is Least concern.Japan thinks Minke whale should not be listed because of lack of scienstic reason and have not accepted it.

If someone prove Minke whale's are not becoming extinct with scienstic reason,will SEA SHEPHERD and their supporters allow Whaling ?
Did they try to prove Minke whale's are becoming extinct, instead of attacking ?
How many whale is required to hunt them?
Is it a matter of number of whales ?

Allhailhata; I think in the case of the Sea Shepard, the folks there appose whaleing not so much based on extinction but more because they believe whales are sentinent beings.

Not sure if that's what you were looking for answer wise, guess it goes with the idea of Star Trek 4 as well, that movie also implied whales were sentinent.

well stated.. agreed
although, isn't there just a deep down gut reaction that says "damn that was awesome.. those nancy's got pwned!"? this always happens... part of me is thinking "yeah, that's not right" and a smaller part is thinking "awesome!"

I am curious about the term "hunting to the point of extinction". I don't think anyone, Japanese or not, would endorse hunting any species to the point of extinction.

I doubt that it was an issue of not speaking true feelings about the matter because of my nationality. I have never brought the subject up or asked anyone about it... But it comes up with frequent news.
People don`t really care that much, and the greater majority really would likely not even notice let alone be upset if whale completely disappeared from the market.

All those Japanese I have met who have expressed a strong sentiment against whaling have explicitly said that they do not want to join any group against it or contribute to groups against whaling because they are all crazy - like Sea Shepard or the like. Those who really don`t care that much but feel it is unnecessary are also discouraged by the extremism of a lot of the groups.

I think this is where activist groups need to actually put forth their effort. If they could actually get the average Japanese to care and to think of whales as something on the same level as pandas or koalas... Or even poor seals who wander into the wrong harbor... There would be tons of groups IN Japan pushing to stop the whaling. As it stands, people don`t really care enough - even if they inherently think it is unnecessary - to stand AGAINST it. "Not necessary" is far from "bad" or "should not be done" in public minds.

thank you Ryzorian.
I have not seen Star Trek 4 .but I know about sentient being theory and John C. Lilly.Of course I know scientists don't support the theory.

There are so many movies in which animals are not only sentient but can speak :D

If SS persist , there will never be a compromise. There is no possibility japan stop whaling because whales are sentient beings.

Next question

1 How about Australia govt ?

(1)I heard that officially NO country is against whaling based on sentient being theory.

Australia govt support the theory?

(2) I know whaling is prohibited by domestic law in AUS.

Why they prohibit it ? I want to know substantial reason.
I don't need guess,but accurate Legislative reasons

(3) I know Australia govt against　especially Research Program in the Antarctic by Japan and their Territorial claims of Antarctica with ＥＥＺ .

If japan stop whaling in the Antarctic and start whaling in japan's ＥＥＺ,
AUS never be against whaling?

(4) Australia govt really believe they can win the case in International Court of Justice?
If they lose,they say "OK,sorry we were wrong,please hunt whale" ?

(5) If they lose,they allow SS to use facilities in Aus and support them?
(I don't think SS obey the decision by International Court,they will just say,
International Court of Justice is a idiot,cruel,barbaric and we are justice,so attack the whalers, because they are doing illegal!)

2 How about ordinary　person ?

(1) same as 1(1). about the theory

(2)　No　need　to answer

(3) same as 1(3).　about whaling in japan's ＥＥＺ

(4) same as 1(4) .　about　how to accept the defeat

(5) same as 1(5). about how to deal with SS in the situation

3　about movies and TV programs against Taiji　

In taiji town,japan,they are hunting pilot whale and Bottlenose Dolphin
IWC doesn't prohibit commercial whaling of huntingpilot whale and Bottlenose Dolphin.Taiji is ,of course,japan's territory.
SO,different from whaling in the Antarctic,100% legal.there is no room for discussion about legality.

very short Summary,not so accurate.
go to taiji,a quarrel,harassment(try to save), failure,killed,blood,cry,leave taiji,cry again.

(1)If you saw [The Cove] or TV　program in which Actress Hayden Panettiere appears,what do you think about it?

(2)What do you think about behavior of Broome, Western Australia after [The Cove] was aired?

(3)Do you think are movies like this useful to stop whaling ?

sorry for long post.
I don't like some japanese say 'this is racism! We must continue!',although anti whaling was used as a device of Japan bashing in past.
so,please answer these questions! I want to tell them 'NO,this is not racism,they think like this・・・’

thank you,IN ADVANCE　

MMMsan aratammemaste.

I agree with you.

I wanted to confirm that hunting to the point of extinction is never allowed
Japanese whalers don't endorse hunting any species to the point of extinction too.

but,It seems like that not so few antiwhalers,especially forigners, offen say that japanese do hunting near to the point of extinction, japanese is barbalick.
This is misunderstanding.
as I had expected, Barone1551 referred to extinction.
I just wanted the word for next question.If there was no risk of extinction ,whaling will be allowed?

This is as far as I read. I am an American living in the USA, so please feel free to address me in English.

I'll be honest with you. I think people who just care about protecting cute animals are phonies. I don't give a darn about the whales for the sake of whales. They just happen to be an important piece in a large ocean ecosystem, and making them extinct will make bad things happen to it. If you don't care, read up on the food chain and ecosystems. I'm sure fish eaters would care if fish stop showing up. Of course by then, who cares about rubbing it in. Then again, maybe they'll take my advice and form some pseudo-science to say it's not that bad, or something. Better than ramming ships (or is it?).

I was too excited.

No. An animal's life (as in single) should not be put over a human's life in my opinion. I understand that there is some debate over whether or not these whales are becoming extinct. But any time some people do not care about the extinction of a species of animal simply for selfish reasons then they are wrong. I don't have problem with eating animals for food. I do have a problem with people being inhumane and/or wiping out a species for no good (in my opinion) reason as do many other persons. And I believe that in the future persons with my thinking will be the majority. I'm not a tree hugger. But some might say I am because if someone cut down all the redwoods to sell for funiture or firewood I would hope that a tree would fall on that person and crush them.

Allhailhata; Honestly, I cant say about Australia, I live in Iowa. Hell, I don't even understand why Californians do what they do half the time.

It's probably as much cultural difference as anything, people get offeneded by things different from what they know/expect. Such things like whaleing or eating cats, or what have you can make people of a different culture where that sort of thing is taboo, uncomfortable. I'm sure the same goes for how a Japanese visitor to the US would feel, when confronted with certain aspects of American culture that they are unprepared for.

So,I'm curious about background of an antiwhaling Culture(?).
Killing whale was not a taboo.So I'm curious about the reason of change.

I picked up Australian,because they seem most eager to stopwhaling,and SS expects Aus Gov to take an action.
but , I'm curious about not Australian people's point of view too.So please tell me and answer the questions I asked before.

I read a document written about IWC the other day.

It was written there that a standard of IWC was vague for permission of the whaling.

The whaling of the commercial use prohibits it in IWC.

However, I seem to sell the souvenir which I made with the bone of the whale at the stand of the airport of Anchorage.

In addition, there seems to be the approved country though I am past, and the history of the whaling is short when "the whaling is tradition".

The headquarters of Seashepard are U.S.A.
U.S.A. whales as well as Japan, too.

Seashepard should do the same interference on an American whaler.

Then why will they interfere with a Japanese ship?

The reason is simple.
The Japanese ship is because I do not have a gun.

YouTube - Hypocrisy: People profiting from the whaling problem

again sorta not
 

In the United States, whaling is carried out by Alaska natives from nine different communities in Alaska. The hunt takes around 50 bowhead whales a year from a population of about 10,500 in Alaskan waters.
Japanese Whaler vessels are armed with explosives that have in the past 'accidently' killed a japanese citizen. The Sea Shepherd vessels are unarmed.

i wonder if the whale had been the one to sink or damage the boat would there be as much fuss.

When/how did they get their hands on one of Batman's boats???
Last time I heard of them, they were throwing piss at people... lol


Satire aside ~ even if the direction of travel and level of speed could be determined by the surrounding waves and position of the vessels, regardless of who is the offender, it seems pretty logically sound to me that a larger, more sluggish ship would have a hard time ramming a smaller, more agile one... unless the smaller boat was being irresponsible and/or reckless -- or more subjectively: dishonest.

I like whales too, and I would prefer that they were not hunted at this scale; However, I still disagree with the protestors' methods. If they were to do anything on a physical level, they should probably do it more gracefully. Seeking sympathy from the media can get tricky when you're caught hurling bodily fluids at people and illegally boarding their ships like pirates.

Just sayin'.

I wondered about that too the last thing i would expect is Greenpeace dudes driving around in a 1.5 million boat. Don't they usually chain themselves to trees?

And come on, the little agile speedboat was rammed by the big sluggish whaling ship?
There 2 possibilities, the fist is the speedboat captain is a complete idiot,
or they stopped in front of them or something like that so the whaling ship should not move on.
Of cause the whaling ship wouldn't have seen the necessarily to stop in this case ;-)

I watched a taken video from three seats of ships (AG,BB,SHOUNANMARU).

Each ship advances at an angle unlike different speed.

AG runs at high speed SHOUNANMARU and one minute to collide ago. AG ran with BB then. And, as for AG, slow fell in the side of the course of SHOUNANMARU. A long trail of AG comes out in the taken video from SHOUNANMARU.

When SHOUNANMARU approached, AG accelerated.

There is BB before SHOUNANMARU to block up the course of SHOUNANMARU.
BB does not stop.

Therefore SHOUNANMARU seems to have hit it on AG on the video which SS took from BB.

YouTube - Last moments of the Ady Gill before being rammed by Shonan Maru No. 2
YouTube - Sea Shepard's Ady Gil deliberately rammed by Shonan Maru No. 2
YouTube - Ady Gil loses bow to Japanese whaling vessel
YouTube - 沈没? 漂流するAdy Gil号 / The Ady Gil left drifting in Antarctic Ocean
YouTube - Sea Shepherd / Ady Gil - the continuum - PropagandaBuster

Personally I have never seen a whale. I live in Iowa, 1500 miles from any ocean. So I have no real argument about whaleing, as long as populations are maintained I dont see why the fuss. I also think the folks who are anti whaleing can go way too far in how they protest things. I dont mind them protesting, but they dont have to be childish about it. It's just like those folks who spike trees to keep them from being cut down, that can kill a logger if thier chain snaps on that spike.

thing is.

if SS really wanted to stop whaling, they should just scuttle the japanese whaling fleet (note this can be done without loss of life)

if the Japanese wanted to really protect thier whaling ships then it is well within the new remit of the Japanese Navy to use force against SS
(provided the gov, agree'd to clasify SS as a terrorist or gurilla group)

the J navy is able to now engage targets outside japanese waters in order to protect its interests from the afore mentioned threats

again sorta not
 

you sir are a couple cans short of a six pack.

He's not incorrect in stateing Japan, or any fleet for that matter, who is harrassed by these guys, could legally sink said offender.

well they would not be the first.

the Norwegian navy has used guns, depth charges and ramming against SS


but yea, someone would kick off, and it would certainly make the news