China V. Google
 

Everyone has probably heard of this by now. Google or China: Who Has More to Lose? - Room for Debate Blog - NYTimes.com
Google challenged the Chinese commies and got the boot. It was planned, but they did it anyways.

So what's up with China? Why does the leninist party in total control think that pretending China is a 3rd world country is the right choice? I don't think they can hold on to power forever this way. Then again, the Chinese people seem to be happy enough just to enjoy the new wealth and ignore the "controversy". But how long will that last? The Asia hive mentality is starting to chafe my ass, esp. in this case with all the thinly veiled hostility. I can imagine WW3 whenever I hear about China's government and how the people are totally stupefied with horse blinders on to do its bidding.

I think Google ends up loosing.
They're the ones who gain financial revenue through a large user base.
China on the other hand can take their business elsewhere. (Bing, Ask etc)

EDIT: I ignored a political answer on purpose.

Well, that's certainly the talking points that the lenenists are rationing to their people. Regardless, the Chinese internet market is local while the internet is global and there's much economic consequence to that.

Just as well because China has 0 defense of it's politics in the world of open information.

China came back at Google a few days ago

Neowin.net - China fires back at Google by blocking Hong Kong search results

Yep, its pretty much common sense that Google is the one going at a loss. All the people will lose out on is the convenience of the google search bar.

Don't get me wrong, I don't partake in political debates that I don't have a first hand experience in. For me, any political strife that exists outside my, or my opposition's practical experience is simply a bout of opinions of how a foreign land should/should not govern itself...and nothing more.

So forgive me if I don't humor you in a debate :mtongue:

google
 

obviously, Google was loosing. china is powerful enough to get google out .:vsign:

Is it, now?



But you're an expert on international internet markets?

What you're saying contradicts itself and makes no sense.

I'm sure that will change if China bombs Taiwan while engaging in organized hacking of the west (which the latter already started). But go ahead and ignore anything outside your city block in the meantime.

No, they can't. They will encounter the same issues with other western owned companies until they build their own internal search engine that is comparable.

They are sure to have the technical expertise to do that, but taking it beyond their borders will encounter similar political censorship issues. The CCP will never allow the free flow of information that the west has come to expect and demand.

Google didn't really lose, they just failed to gain. That isn't the same thing. And despite that set back in their business plan, no major competitor is stepping into the breach yet.

Google knew what they were doing and were well aware of the reaction from the Chinese govt. Business aside, I think taking a small stand against an oppressive regime is admirable.

Certainly can't be done from the inside China Bars Scholar From Traveling to U.S. - NYTimes.com Now, I wonder if this lady is going to mysteriously disappear like others have.

They already have search engines that are huge over in China and according to all the Chinese I've spoken to, they were used a lot more than they ever used google!

Three main search engines!

baidu
sogou
soso

You might be right, and you'll probably find that the majority of Chinese that live abroad do agree with you, but you'll also find an alarming amount of people that syphathise/agree with the governments actions. A lot, especially those abroad, believe that if the people of China were to learn everything about the governments actions and the world outside, there would be civil unrest in China which would hugely disrupt the countries "rise to power" on the global scale! Many of these Chinese reference previous empires and global powers as proof. The majority of the worlds global powers in the past reached their status through some sort of dictatorship regime. Whether it was a monarchy or other! So for now, a lot of Chinese have HUGE problems with their government, but they still symphathise because they do see how life is improving and how China is becoming more and more important in the world!

I said comparable. By that I meant open and able to search all public documetns on the internet. No matter what subject you were searching on Google, Bing, etc. you would find the most current and/or widely read posts on the issue, regardless of their origin.

I would expect that on any of those three a search on "Mao Zedong" would have considerably skewed responses and there are many western authors that would not show at all.

Ok, fair enough. I misunderstood since you wrote about building the search engine.

As for the most current and or widely read posts, that's not exactly how google and all these other search engines work, but that's a totally different topic. I will say this though, there is a measure of control from Google and such on search results! However, it gets labelled as a brother of parental control, and not an infringement of freedom of speech/civil rights/whatever else people use to describe China's firewall!

I’d assume that, even if the service/ business is locally owned when contrasted with what they were originally using, it would be considered as taking their business elsewhere. But that is semantics so I’m just being picky with this argument.

I’m not sure I understand. Could you clarify this further?
As far as I’ve understood the situation, google was already an established service in China, that means they were raking in some amount of revenue from advertisements and other forms of google/web related income. By shutting down their services due to moral implications they have already eliminated all prospects of profit that would have come from China. In other words, every time someone doesn’t click on a google ad, (who would have otherwise done so) it would be considered a loss for google.
So I’m basically having a hard time understanding how they don’t lose, but instead, failed to gain when they've eliminated China's userbase from the equation.

Yeah, like I mentioned, there's a growing middle class, people are going to prioritize material quality of life above personal liberty. Not that they have much insight on the matter to begin with.

There's no convincing reason to believe that the motivation of the people in power is any different than any other power in history: to maintain power at all costs. And anybody that argues that the party actually knows what they're doing by running a sheeple state sounds as far from convincing as they come. The belief in that "rise to power" philosophy is a house of cards that will fall from power just as fast and perhaps cause much destruction along the way. Maybe even a big, impressive castle of cards, but cards nonetheless. The whole thing would be about as new a concept as religion.

But google isn't in charge of blocking youtube, twitter, facebook, and pretty much any free flow of information. Even the Chinese will tell you their closed internet isn't meant to inform, only entertain. Right now, it's not of much consequence (to outsiders), but the world will care when the brown hits the fan with this sheeple state if and when it "rises to power". For now, enjoy your bonbons and your cheap Chinese made goods.

Oh and it doesn't matter if google lost or "didn't gain". They were already losing due to the rigidity of the environment in that market. I seriously doubt the decision to leave was purely ideological. But it was a nice side effect.

Google is leaving because it refused to abide by Chinese laws, a behavior that will not be tolerated in any sovereign country.Neither will it be in China, neither should it be in China.

despite Google's intention to violate Chinese laws, Chinese authority has not taken any essential action like forcing Google to leave China. On the contrary, the officials expressed hope for Google staying in China on the condition of abiding by the law. It is Google's own decision to leave China

Duh. The point is Chinese laws blow dung chunks out a potato cannon and so do many of the consequences and potential consequences of them.

They essentially took action to force Google out, if not essential action.

Btw, in perfect fairness, let's consider what happens when a dumb public gets led on by a powerful government. Vietnam, (and the current situations in) Iraq and Afghanistan. I'd hate to think what China would cause with systematic ideological control of the public.

It's all just rainbows and kittens with the agreeable ninnies of society until what went around finally comes around, then they whine like female dogs the loudest. Well, enjoy.

most chinese they use baidu,yahoo knowledge,etc etc.i didn't hear much people using google.cn

Google never quit China at all.
Chinese can use it normally, why many people say Google has quit China market?
How many people think that Chinese people were stupid controled by their govenment?

I really do not care what you talk about, but please do not use bad words like stupid.

Google will probably be the loser.....

Any that care to notice reality.

Very insightful. Thanks.

It's definitely a shame that a country with such a rich, beautiful history and culture could sink into such a controlling atmosphere. I do often wonder how China views foreign imports like food, appliances (IBM, LG, HP) and heck, even vitamins like Centrum or Ionic Silver.

They seem to have control over anything that comes in or leaves the country. The U.S. has that control, but we're not a totalitarian state....at least we're not one just yet.