Do Japanese guys pay for meals/outings for female friends?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by GoNative

MMM you must work in a very different world than I if taking 5 or more years out of your career wouldn't have a detrimental effect on it. As I said previously in places like Australia the idea of using day care for your child is not one filled with guilt at giving up your responsibilities as a parent. In fact it's often looked at as a good parenting choice that is great for the childs development, maybe day care centres are better quality in Aus than the US? Many parents, even if one of the parents don't work, often send their kids to day care at least a few days a week anyway.

The choice to keep working is often not just one based on career aspirations but on financial ones so that a family can provide a quality education and a life filled with great experiences fo their kids, something that may not be financially possible with only one parent working.

In Australia there just doesn't seem to be this gut wrenching choice of being a responsible parent or choosing career. Most feel the two can go hand in hand. Parents can still take a very active role in their childrens lives even though both work full time. I have nothing whatsoever against those parents that choose to stay at home until their kids head off to school or those mothers or fathers that choose to be housewives or househusbands. If that is what makes them happy then go for it. But I think it's great that men and especially women now have a choice instead of just having to follow some traditional roles that may not make them happy one little bit.

I must, because I know lawyers who have hit "pause" in their careers to raise children and I know one scientific researcher, as well (my mother) that waited until her children were in school to go back to work.

This is my personal opinion, but if my baby is 6 months old, I don't think a parent should have just a "very active role" but should have the only role in that child's life.

And if the choice of being a mother doesn't make a woman happy, then why did she have the baby in the first place?

Originally Posted by steven

I think it's interesting to note that there are stay at home dads in Japan.

But I will guess and say it is rare and considered odd.

Originally Posted by steven

MMM, you seem to have a very nice and clean perspective about mothers...

I didn't realize that "mothers" had such a negative image in this community? Didn't we all have one?

Originally Posted by steven

maybe it's my having grown up in/around LA, but I've known many "mothers" who have kids to get money from the government. Or mothers who accidentally have kids and use them for that. I've also known drug addicted mothers who couldn't give an S about their kids.

Clearly these are not the people I am talking about. I do not have a positive image about people like this.

Originally Posted by steven

If we're talking about more or less normal people, though, I think most mothers do care very much for their children. Men do too... and I think men have been known to show their love by working their asses off for their family. Who's to say women can't do that, too? They're certainly capable in my opinion. There are also certainly men who are capable of raising their kids the way mothers traditionally have. There are, however, a few physiological things about this like breastfeeding and what-not. Once you get past those first few years though, what difference does it make, really?

Point out where I say this is a woman's job. For the most part I use the word "parent" as it is not necessarily a woman's job to raise a child. What I am asking is, if she is not interested in raising a child or being married, why is she getting married and having children?

Originally Posted by steven

As a kid I was always jealous of other kids with stay at home parents. I don't think it would have made much of a difference if my mom or my dad stayed home to play with me all day, I would've been pretty happy.

Thank you. My point exactly.

[bolay]

Originally Posted by GoNative

It's purely wishful thinking and not ever going to happen. I have plenty of friends though where the wife makes far more money than the husband and in some of those cases it has been the husband who has taken time off working to look after their young child so the wife can get back to work quicker. With people I associate with there is very little of the old time traditional views that man must make money and wife raise the family. To be honest most of them would think that people who hold such views are pretty behind the times. Of course here in Japan where there really wasn't much of a revolution for womens rights gender roles remain fairly traditional.

whoa.... then i should change my view??? it's true though, lot of my friend where the wife make money more than the husband...
well maybe my view behind the times T_T

[lilsgeru]

man, this thread has really gone off topic...lol

[vithvicious]

Considering that the points addressed thus far have a lingering impact on your original question...

"Do Japanese guys pay for meals/outings for female friends?'

I would say not so much. In fact I would even go as far to say that there is a certain level of bias perception in your original question seeing as it was aimed at Japanese men originally, that the developments of the discussions so far; have removed for the sake of legitimacy and reason.

Where the original question was "Do Japanese guys..." and it has now conversed itself into " Should men pay for meals, What are the implications of, etc etc..."

Objectively speaking, to ask the question with an added prefix of Japanese Men within a question imposes an underlining imposition that other men in fact do and that the original assumption is that Japanese men don't, because otherwise asking the question would be a moot point. But that is primarily due to the structure of the question, of where it was presented and in the fashion it remains presented.

But I'm sure that wasn't the intention.
Because we all say what we mean but don't mean what we say.

[steven]

I did notice that right off the bat, the "Do Japanese guys pay for meals/outings for female friends" was slightly interpreted as "Do Japanese guys pay for dates".

I suppose the title and the original written text in the thread kind of blur the lines a little bit though.

Getting back to the title of the topic, why would anybody pay for their friends on a regular basis? I understand a here or there type of a thing, but I don't see the point in paying every time based on gender.

As far as Japanese guys paying for their female friends or not, I don't think so. From what I've seen, people do split the bill more often than not (I can't recall a single time I've seen or heard of a guy splitting the bill for a "friend" who is a girl, although I don't go around asking about it, either.

If the guy is trying to get with the girl, then that's a whole different story. Some guys pay and do it that way, some guys can get away with not paying. Who knows what the success rates and paying for meals graph looks like? I've seen a lot of guys get used at bars/nomiyas by women all the time. There is a bit of the snack scene in what I'm talking about, but it goes on with non-snack girls, too. Some guys liked being used... others don't particularly like it, but that's how it goes. There are a lot of women who will use men for meals. Some people have already brought up the point that it's your own fault if you get with a girl like that-- that may be true. If you get a girl who doesn't "use" you, but whom you pay for every time, then I think there's a really fine line we're talking about. Unless you have some master plan worked out where she goes home and cooks for you all the time and you take her out and treat her to a meal in exchange or something. My guess is most people don't have things figured out like that, however.

In Japan there are certainly more stay at home moms than in America, which may very well warrant a system where the man pays for the woman. However, if we're talking about friends and th man is trying to get with the woman, than I should hope she's not a stay at home mom.

[bolay]

Originally Posted by lilsgeru

man, this thread has really gone off topic...lol

yeach ^^ but got lot to learn about others perspective & view about things ^^

[minamo9]

Often they will pay the bill.

however, if they are just friends and know eachother well the split bill option is well.

[steven]

Sorry to bring this thread back up, but I found something quite interesting today:

Splitting the bill on a date in Japan | 世論 What Japan Thinks

Check it out. I think it's important to consider who participated in the survey. It says it at the top, but just for a brief rundown (rounded off for convenience):
Male: 70%
Female: 30%
20's: 26%
30's: 43%
40's: 31%

I think it's interesting to note that the majority of these people are up there in age dating wise (no offense to anyone on here). Also take into account the source of the data. I think that what it shows is is that most men tend to pay MORE than half when they go out. Judging from my own experiences, I think that's quite realistic. Although I'm inclined to believe that younger people tend to split more evenly and more often than older people.

[steven]

I know I might be starting trouble by bringing up this old thread again, but I think this recently translated survey might help give a little data to back up peoples' arguments. Check out Q13, particularly the part that is titled:
"Men should pick up most of the tab on dates"
All Male
N=250 Female
N=250
Agree 12.8% 16.4% 9.2%
Somewhat agree 37.2% 42.0% 32.4%
Somewhat disagree 32.4% 26.4% 38.4%
Disagree 17.6% 15.2 20.0%

The bigger picture of this survey: people born between 1990/1991. Note how the title reads: Coming of Age. This has to do with something called 成人式 (seijinshiki) in Japan, which is essentially a "coming of Age (20) ceremony). These people are officially considered adults now. They will be "the future", so to speak. So I feel that their opinions on these questions posed in the survey are most relevant. What do you guys think?