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Mosque at Ground Zero
What do you guys think about the mosque being built at Ground Zero?
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It's not just a mosque. It is an Islamic community center that also has a mosque. Although they do have the right to build it near ground zero, I think it shows a lack of judgement on the part of the builders. It is just going to make people really mad.
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It's a little insensitive for muslim leaders to choose it as a place to build, however at the same time we need to respect other's beliefs and religions, and everyone has the right to worship as they see fit. I think if it's built there then it may be a good thing, because it shows forgiveness and tolerance on the part of the Americans, and hopefully will go towards eliminating the phobia against the Islamic religion many people have. That said I'm speaking as an outsider to the situation. I can see why some people would be very annoyed, and if it was happening local to me with people I know involved on either side, I might hold an entirely different view. As it is I think that it should be allowed to go ahead, and people should respect that rather than responding with the initial phobic horror thay many unfortunately do. |
lol
I understand that people are mad. But its not like If The muslims at the mosque are the ones that bombed 9/11. And i dont want to start getting into conspiracy theories. But there is no Concrete evidence That Islamists were the ones to bomb it. Im surprised they found a passport intact after an explosion.
And there are churches in Iraq dont you find that insensitive? There are cynagogues in palestine arent there? |
hmm.. definitely a go for me..
America says they respect the freedom of religion and they should keep their words! Mosque is a place where Muslims worship to God, not bombing other places.. I'm not surprise to see that every religion has an extremist; and those who oppose this idea of building it, to me is an "extremist" too.. no offence.. just my 2 cents |
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Although i'm a muslim myself, i'm quite surprised that america agreed and confirmed that a mosque could be established at the ground zero ... it's a brave action from the muslims in america to request to establish an islamic center there (after the incident of 11/9) ... i just hope nothing happens there wrong under the name of Islam
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Let's get the facts straight.
What is being proposed is an Islamic community center that would be built in an old Burlington Coat Factory a couple blocks from where the World Trade Center used to stand. The Constitution answers the question for us. Of course this should be allowed. The fact that the question would even come up shows the intolerance that exists in the US. |
Of course Muslim Americans are allowed to have Islamic centers and mosques in the US just like any other religion but why near Ground Zero and the grand opening on the 9th of September next year (10 years since 9/11)? I hope this Islamic community center teaches the good side of Islam not the extremism. Here in the UK we have a tv show called Dispatches and went undercover in the biggest mosque in the Britain. It has a shop that sells books and DVDs which preach to hate Jews, gays and non-muslims.
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I think it's a symbolically good idea! A place where the real religion is taught,
We gotta trust them again at some point . . . |
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New York City would not be intolerant in saying "no" to building an Islamic community center in a retail area, in this case they are bending over backwards to be tolerant. An Islamic community center, being a religious facility belonging to an organized religion, would of course be tax exempt, and allowing such a center (or even a Christian church) will greatly reduce the tax revenue generated by the property. The crux of the argument is that getting permission to build a Christian (or Jewish, or Buddhist) church or large religious center anywhere in Manhattan is next to an impossibility, but building an Islamic community center somehow gets wide approval from everyone from Mayor Bloomberg to President Obama himself. Critics of the community center see this as "special" treatment based upon religious preference, which is also considered patently unconstitutional. |
would it be better to move the wall street stock market to another city?
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I tend to avoid these kinds of conversations as they're almost always doomed to be 'shitstorms'
However, MMM is completely right. It's not "at ground zero" as the news is portraying it. And to the people saying "Why not move it?" -- Do you know there's been 'outrages' in California, Tennessee and Wisconsin about building Mosques there as well? I really don't think location actually matters at all. We should bend over backwards for Muslims -- the intolerance they've received as a whole is totally unfair. America was founded on freedom of religion. :cool: I would also like to say I hate all religion! I think the world would be a much better place without it :D |
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The reason people are saying no to this is not because of zoning, or because it's a religious building in a retail area (there are a number of those) it's because it's Islam and it's near WTC. That's it. There is no other reason. I don't see heated debates saying "oh well the zoning and you know, century 21 is right there! we can't have that!" No, it's more like "it's insulting, they killed our family" Theses are the type of statements that shouldn't be made and all the more the reason why it should be built. Whilst, yes the government has to step in for it to be built, that is, in a way irrelevant. You can't quite build something out of nowhere and not expect the government to get involved. It is intolerant when the reasons given are not ones of zoning or retail but ones of hate and intolerance. MMM = Completely right. |
I don't care who builds what on available ground. Full space is always better than empty space - though I prefer buildings that make tax revenue. (I also think religious buildings should not be exempt from paying these taxes) Whoever has the money to build and is able to get the permit should be allowed to have their space no matter what. Honestly this is a non-issue for me.
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You said its difficult but is it impossible to get approval? Someone said earlier that there were churches and synagogues in Manhattan too... so perhaps the truth is that the Christians and the Jews just didnt apply or their proposals didnt meet a certain standard. Dont get me wrong... Im no fan of religion either, but Im even more opposed to discrimination. Furthermore... I havent seen that argument as a main talking point. Most of the republican talking points centre on the insensitivity of it. The guy who proposed the Islamic centre however, is supposedly a well renowned moderate who advocates peace and tolerance so I cant think of anything MORE appropriate to build in and around ground zero. |
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There is no reason to think they are planning to teach extremist views. Quote:
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I like to look at things from numerous perspectives. In this case, despite my attempts to, I can't get over the fact that it seems like a spit in the face.
Is it not possible to choose a location that isn't possibly going to offend a lot of people. |
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THAT is insanity. |
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To be more precise, I would like them to build a mosque, but am not particularly enthusiastic about the location (within the entire city) it is going to be built. |
Go do a Google map search of that area. You can even search out the old location of the Coat Factory to see where it is in relation to Ground Zero.
That tip of the island is what, 10-12 blocks wide? I'd like people to tell me with an area where land is limited, how many blocks away from Ground Zero does a community center in a diverse city have to be to not be considered disrespectful? How much distance before people who were not involved in the terrorist attack have to be before they can build a community center? Who gets to set that limit? Has every other business, center and home in the area been vetted for sensitivity to the attack? Can you have a Muslim owned coffee shop two blocks away? Three? Right next door as long as too many Muslims don't gather there? I can understand having strong and passionate feelings for the events of 9/11 but we can not set aside our founding principals. That would be complete hypocrisy. |
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Jon Stewart made the same argument the other night. How far is too far? Who gets to set that limit? Municipal Land-Use Hearing Update - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 08/10/2010 - Video Clip | Comedy Central |
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Are you saying the rule should be "No mosques in NYC"? Should there be no Christian Churches in Waco TX, or OKC? |
They got rights to build a mosque and worship whatever they respect and we got to respect them too, but I don't like that they build it near G0. I think that it we cause more or less discomfort to the community around there. In my opinion if you build some religion building you can build it anywhere. All the followers can drive there no problem eventhough it's a little bit far, because they have faith. I think to build it near G0 so much is quite nonsense anyway.
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Please explain that. It is blocks from G0, and that means there are dozens of shops and buildings between the actual G0 and the location that is being proposed for this Islamic Cultural Center, which has been approved unanimously by the City Council committee in charge of these kinds of things. |
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Again, I'm not unhappy with the mosque being built. I have close muslim relatives and firmly discourage the ignorant misconceptions of the link between Islam and the extremist, terrorist factions. I am, however, unhappy with the decision to build in that specific location, despite the fact that people will be offended by it. I'm more disappointed with what seems to be an unwillingness to compromise for the sake of those who suffered losses during 9/11. They don't have to build there. But I guess it has its purposes. |
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I'm a bit split on this... Being a Muslim myself, I witness pure ignorance everyday when it comes to Islam, even among my friends who supposedly take interest in my culture and belief. I'm generally the type of person that will never try to teach my belief to someone, and perhaps it's not good, but I usually prefer letting people do their own research. In reality, unless people see something on TV concerning the subject, they'll never go on google and research about it, hence the result of mass ignorance!
The point I'm getting at is that, this centre would be a great way to inform the types of people that I can't be bothered to inform, but at the same time, this centre will re-hatch all the negative sentiments a lot of these ignorant people have. So I guess, it's a good way to try to teach that the fundamentals of Islam has nothing to do with 9/11, but it's a risky way of doing it, because it might backfire and end up reigniting the discrimination that has been spread for the past 9 years. After 9/11, it was very tough for Muslims in America. I'm not speaking from personal experience, but there are two security guards at my building that lived in NY for 20 odd years, have a family, a home etc, but felt they had to move out of the US and come to France. They miss the US, the US is their home and they hope to move back one day, but controversies like this, will surely end up delaying the return to and openness of Muslims in America. |
Erm, I am of the opinion that this topic itself is seriously skirting the rules. As MMM joined in the discussion, I`ll step back and let him make the call - but we do NOT have religious related discussions on JF.
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In fact it only seems to be a controversy because the republicans want to turn it into a political point scoring issue. As MMM said... it was approved unanimously by the city. |
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Nobody is talking specifically about their hokey superstitions just yet. |
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Well Im thinking that we might have a chicken and egg dilemma as to which came first. The public outcry or the Republican propaganda. Based on MMMs point about the city council though. Im inclined to believe the latter. |
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But for me at least, there is a principle at stake here. |
A Quote from Barack Obama's Ground Zero mosque plea will cost him and the Democrats votes - Telegraph
According to a CNN-Opinion Research poll released this week, nearly 70 per cent of Americans oppose the mosque plan. Here is another article outlining what I meant. Ground Zero mosque plans 'fuelling anti-Muslim protests across US' | World news | The Guardian |
This video has a good point from an American from Muslim descent on his view of this controversy.
YouTube - MSNBC: Cenk On Muslims & Mosque Near Ground Zero |
Even with a CNN poll sponsored (assuming it was not funded by another group) I have to wonder who decided to reply. I know that there are conservative groups that absolutely are mobilized to respond to polls of this nature. Many of the people mobilized are so radically uniformed and misinformed in such a way as to play on their biases and racism. It's hard to get 70% agreement on any issue in the US. So I have to remain skeptical about the results. Perhaps we are seeing a gut reaction response via poll that would not bear out in a logical discourse on the issue.
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The way I see it, a lot has been done to supress certain actions in order to avoid offending certain people. We can't say or do certain things because it can be misinterpreted, even if it was not within our intention. Ironically, one could argue that this also is a form of tolerance of ignorance. From this standpoint, in this case, the party making the decision is a party that has been protected by political correctness, and yet will not simply improvise a more peaceful solution for others when given the option. Whether or not they are ignorant has limited relevance unless, frankly, people are being physically hurt. In which case, I say build-baby-build. I'm not supporting forcing anyone to do anything -- or not doing anything... I just dislike the way things are being handled. |
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