Yeah.. thats true.

A lot of ugliness has surfaced the past few weeks. I wonder what sort of toll its going to take.

I would personally consider making such a compromise an honorable act and subsequently worthy of being considered a victory. Time will tell.

You know... I think that now that Rev. Terry Jones has done the "right" thing and will not burn those Quran's. Shouldn't the people who are trying to build the mosque maybe also consider doing the "right" thing and building it elsewhere, a little farther away maybe?

I kind of feel like it makes religious intolerance in America the winner.

The way I see things, is that people are not angry that it's a mosque being built, more like it's because to me it feels like the people who are trying to build it didn't take into account the feelings of the people who were affected by the 9/11 attack. Although I'm not sure if things would be the same if it was a christian church being built, would people be angry? Hmmm... maybe it is a religious thing.

It also seems like a lot of potential violence could be avoided.

Which is a cause of religious intolerance.

I'm still seeing headlines with "mosque at ground zero" written. That was already presented as misleading in a previous thread. This tells me that the media is hugely affecting this situation. Why did it make the news to begin with? If it was never on the news some guy in Florida wouldn't be throwing a hissy fit about it. Similarly, why did some guy throwing a hissy fit over this make the news? If you wanna talk about potential violence that could be avoided then you should be talking about the media. They've got control of the cameras and the editing... whomever they play the bad-guy music for will be the bad guy.

Lumping people involved in the community center that happens to have a mosque in it with the people responsible for 911 is unfair. Not to stir things up too much, but I'd liken it to calling german people nazis. 911 is almost 10 years old and there's still crap like this going on. Why is that?

Rev. Jones is saying he has cancelled the event because the Imam in NYC agreed to move the Islamic Center further away from Ground Zero.

The Imam is saying he make no promise of that kind at all.

So doesn't this mean that everything is just back where it started?

Indeed. I'm bouncing off the idea that there's more than one aspect of victory, in this case. The fact that people can suggest resolving something like this is a certain victory, acknowledging that there is also a dynamic of principle at stake. It is being somewhat simplistic, but it's not without some value.

Eitherway, as I said: Time will tell. I won't get too comfortable until they announce actual results.

Unknown. The Florida guy says he has an appointment in NYC on Saturday. The NYC Imam says he doesn't.

It says that Jones is reconsidering his decision of calling off the event. I think maybe there is still a chance of it happening.

That'll be hard if he is in NY Saturday.

Well he might not even go to New York anymore because of what happened. Jones says he wants to talk with the Imam of New York tomorrow.

Florida pastor says he's 'rethinking" canceled Quran burning - CNN.com

I am just trying to figure out what negotiating power he thinks he has.

I really don't think he has anything besides burning the Quran. Maybe he's hoping that the Imam will consider this to be such an atrocious act thathee will move the mosque site. Other than that I think he's just manipulated the media, and he basically has nothing.

Honestly so what? It won't incite muslims to violence anymore than anything else does..and pretty much anything else allready does. Walking across the street with your girlfirend/boyfirend's hand in yours incites them to violence, haveing a female as a department head incites them to violence, haveing a statue of a female in New York harbor incites them to violence.

It's not really an arguement saying the action itself will endanger anyone anymore than they are allready in just because they are non muslim. The meer fact non muslims exist, incites them to violence. It's just the nature of the beast. It won't start a relgious war because technically they have been fighting a relgious war since Islam's creation under Mohamad, they won't stop until everything is muslim. Again, it's just the nature of the beast.

Well it's just that to me, it feels like burning the Quran would be like the spark that ignites the powder keg.

The keg was lit 1400 years ago and exploded by Mohamad.

This is different Ryzorian. It is basically a call to war: Islam vs. USA.

And the Islamic Golden Age, preserved works by Aristotle and Socrates, founded modern chemistry and modern agriculture, introduced Arabic-Indian numerals. Also the the Common law of the UK, Canadian, Australian, and New Zealand is based on Islamic religious laws. The foundation of America is institutionally in some way... Islamic.

I guess that in some way it is, but the principles that the U.S.A were founded by are probably different. Hmmm. thinking back, didn't all of this start to happen because of General Petraeus? I'm pretty sure that if he hadn't said anything about this it would't have become as big an issue as it is. Maybe?

No they aren't, American and common law practice dates back to the Romans. Islam destroyed Arbian cultural achievements because it wasn't "of Allah" The same way the taliban destroyed those budda statues. Mohamad destroyed his own tribe because they wouldn't submit to him, he killed them all and everything they knew died with them.

Islam at it's core is the Arbian nomandic tribal way of liveing, wich is barbaric, kill your neighbor and take his stuff before he kills you and takes yours. That's how they have lived for thousands of years and Mohamad simply made a "relgion" of it, so he could justify his atrocities.

MMM; It's the US verse Islam allready, allways was, ever since we defeated the Barbry pirates, who were muslim. See, the quaran tells muslims that any muslim country defeated by a non muslim country has to be avenged, muslims must ever seek to defeat and convert that non muslim nation. That victory on the shores of Tripoli was the the declaration of war all the way back in 1815.

Let's just say the cold war will get much hotter if this modern declaration of war goes forward.

Better to have it all out in the open then, let it reveal the true nature of things. You can't find the termintes destroying your house unless you pull away some wood.

I don't think you are understanding. People are going to die. More people are going to die.

I'm not so sure, MMM... It's more of a call to war between people that think like Ryzorian in the West vs people that think like Ryzorian in Islam. It's actually quite funny, hearing those uneducated, brainwashed extremist Muslims splur hate about the US sounds remarkably similar to how Ryzorian talks... If they ever found a common enemy, I'm sure they'd get along ridiculously well!

It's the truth, those kinds of people are all the same. I wish they could not involve the rest of us in their shenanigans.

I think that saying that extremist are all the same is accurate though, I mean there are extremist who do something about what they think, and hose who just talk, I think the ones we should worry about are the ones who make good on their threats, not the harmless ones.

get your facts straight bro..
your arguments definitely lacks of truth and facts..
you simply said killing is part of the religion but there are tons of verses in the holy book that counter these allegations.. Islam is a religion of peace, the Taliban no shit about the religion since they don't even pray to God.. Majority of the muslims are living in peace with their neighbors but your media is supporting the killings in the name of the religion..

There are more than 1 billion Muslims today, with many backgrounds including doctors, engineers and academics; don't you think we know how to differentiate what is good and what is bad? Don't let a small minority of people who claims they're doing in the name of God cover your eyes and hearts to see the real truth behind it.. Every Muslim country condemns the act of killing innocent people!

Read more, learn more, change the globe! :vsign:

I would say that Islam is NOT a religion of peace.... but many Muslims are peaceful people.

I say the same about Christians and Jews.

The Old testament advocates Genocide and racism. The New testament relies on the old testament to be true (Its kind of why the Christian bible includes the old testament.)

I really dont think that any religion is peacful, at least not always anyway. Haven't all religions tried to convert others by force? Haven't people killed in the god? From all religions? It's just because a group of people kill others in the name of their religion, that the whole world see's everyone from that religion as violent.

It's extremists, not the whole religion that supports killings >.>

In my opinion killings and wars in the name of religions rarely have anything to do with religion at all. It's about power and politics and religion is just used by those in power to get the masses on board and create the fanatacism required to justify the atrocities they go on to commit. Patriotism and nationalism can be used for the same ends. Religions in and of themselves generally preach tolerance and compassion. it's only when men distort and twist the teachings that religions get used to do terrible things.

Have you read the Koran? the old testament?

I am going to jump in here and say we are moving away from the news of the day into a religious discussion. Remember discussions about the merits of one religion vs. another are not allowed. The reason is they never end well. We tried it for a long time, and never worked. This is the warning as the thread goes forward.

Well, it's official, there will be no burning of the Quran. I think Terry Jones just wanted his five minutes of fame. I would't be surprised if this guy ends up with his own reality show, as many other stupid people have.

Evangelist: Florida pastor 'agreed in principle' not to burn Qurans - CNN.com

"Agreed in principle"
... One would think the issue of principle would kick in earlier.

I had a feeling he was misunderstanding the imam's offer. If there was going to be a decision to move the mosque, we probably wouldn't have heard it from Jones first.

About 29 hours to see what happens. It's kind of sad how this story is being followed.

Yeah I kind of feel like he is trying to do everything he possibly can to stretch this out as long as he can. And I'm not intentionally following it, but every news channel talks about him. I mean in front of his church are like a billion cameras, you'd think Obama was going to give a speech.