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What's it like for an American to live in Japan?
Just curious how an American living in Japan is viewed by the general populace. Maybe it's an almost impossible thing to know since I'm sure Japan could be as varied culturally as different parts of the US. But if anyone has some personal experience with living in Japan, I'd like to hear it. I'm not that interested in vacations or other short tourist-like trips -- more interested in those that live and work there. Or those that are retired there.
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It depends on what kind of American you are. Japan's image of America is blond hair, blue eyes, and really white. If you are Asian-American, you are Asian (and maybe even Japanese on first sight) and will be treated differently. Basically, if you aren't white then you're not American until you explain to them that you are American. Likewise, if you are white, you might be considered American (even though there are white people all over the place). This is why it always helps to know Japanese-- if you can explain this stuff then they will usually understand.
As far as how 'Americans' are viewed, I think in general Japanese people like Americans a lot. Some people have different reasons than others. Personally I'm really into music, so the people I end up talking to seem to be into America for the music. Older people like older music (like bluegrass and stuff like that) and the Beatles (even though they're not American) and younger people might like newer music like Coldplay or whatever. Where I live, agriculture is huge, so if you talk to really old people you sometimes run into guys who went to America to study about farming, and brought back some of their impressions of America back then. So they have memories of really nice and polite families from back in the fifties... something that has probably changed about America. Other people might just like America because they like whatever American culture is in Japan-- it's kind of like people who like Anime/Manga in America I would think. Like maybe they watch 24 or full house and just like the 'foreigner lifestyle' and way of speaking and all that. It's kind of vague to me, but there seem to be a lot of people like that. I'm not so sure about people retiring in Japan. I remember MMM (a moderator here) said that in order to live here you usually have to work here. |
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I live in an area though where there has been a significant inlux of foreigners over the last 10 years from numerous countries but mainly Australia, Canada, New Zealand, US and UK. The ski resort we live at has seen a property development boom which saw our region have the highest rates of increases to housing prices in all of Japan (by a long way). Which is quite a feat for a rural area of Hokkaido where in general the economy is going backwards. It is also one of the few rural areas in Japan where the number of jobs have steadily increased. There has been 100's of millions of dollars invested into the region, mainly from foreign individuals and companies and there has been a reasonable amount of resentment from some locals. No more than I would expect in any country though where a whole lot of foreigners came in and bought up the place. Most of the locals appear to be pretty happy though as the influx of foreign investment has meant growing opportunities for them as well. Also many Japanese had been hanging on here in businesses that were barely breaking even and owning property that they wouldn't have been able to sell for more than what they bought them for back in the boom years. This recent boom allowed many to sell up and realise profits that they could only have dreamed about if not for the foreign led boom to property prices. This area is somewhat unique in Japan in my opinion and an interesting experiment in multiculturalism that has been working pretty well so far. The majority of foreigners here have nothing to do with english teaching and have bought property and settled in for the long haul, if not forever. Many are married to Japanese nationals and there's been one hell of a baby boom over the last few years. The Japanese media are often here up here documenting the phenomena which is Niseko. Will be interesting to see how it all evolves over the years. |
The Japanese tolerate us, just like anywhere else you have a minority who doesn't speak the native tongue of the country they reside in.
With that said, I tend to get dismissed by other gaijin more than I do Japanese. I've had it all from the Japanese; weird stares, ignoring me, or just plain being nice and striking up a conversation with me.When it comes to other foreigners, however, 9/10 times they'll give you an evil glare as if they're the only gaijin that are allowed to be in Japan and you're ruining their uniqueness. This has just been my experience living in Tokyo so far. |
Must be a big city attitude. Or just people thinking their cool for not acknowleging other gaijin or something. Up around these parts everyone always gives you at least a nod or a wave. But then just about all of us know each other or see each on a regular basis. There's only a few hundred of us who live here permanently.
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what about non-americans? surely there are people from Europe and around the world who also live there?
Here in UK we have had to get used to seeing many people from around the world--generally we accept except for those who are racist. I think its great to have people from around the world-- Travel is easier than it used to be. surely Japan willeventually accept gaiijin if they want good relationships globally. The thing is that whereever we go-- we need to try to fit in with the ways and culture of that country--not expect the country to change for US. The AMerican Occupation must have had an impact-- and the American military presence? |
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Long term foreigners in Japan who don`t really do that type of thing tend to be very nasty to me if for some reason we do talk. Speaking Japanese well and not pulling the "I`m foreign so treat me better than everyone else because of cultural differences!" card at every turn apparently really makes some of them angry. There are exceptions, of course, but it seems like the majority of foreigners in Japan for longer than a vacation either a) See it as a playground where they can get drunk and pick up girls or b) Hate it with a passion and make sure that everyone around them knows. Normal people leading normal lives are a real rarity. |
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You're right about the two caricatures as well. I don't understand how disgruntled people here can get along in Japan. I'm not someone who says things like "Well if you hate this country then why don't you leave??" because there are honestly a lot of things that aren't that great here, but that doesn't mean I go and bash the entire country whenever I can. That's like a past time for foreigners here; bash Japan with other foreigners. |
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Basically, here in Japan, if you're a gaijin then you're American until proven otherwise. That's a Japanese generalization, not a western one. Going to Japan as a foreigner is not like a Brit going to America or and American going to England. In these cases, you can get along fine besides an accent and a different measurement system. It will always remain difficult to assimilate in Japan because of the language and cultural differences. And I don't know what the military has to do with not sharing a common language or cultural beliefs. You say that in the UK you accept everyone yet your intolerance and ignorance say otherwise. |
I take exception to you saying my post was a troll post--
I personally accept people from around the world into my country. too many immigrants IS causing problems because we are such a small country and it causes many problems having to deal with too many immigrants. Youknow there are other people in the world apart from Americans. Maybe Americans think they are better than anyone else-- I take people individually-- I love to meet many people regardless of race etc. people are individuals-- some are decent-- some are not. Please do not generalise about us and I'll try not to generalise about You. you cannot always believe everything you read and hear about us. I have not been to Japan-- I only know a few japanese personally and of those I am very fond. No doubt as you are now living in Japan you will become a fountain of knowledge about everything Japanese. I respect Nyrororin because she lives in Japan and is married to a Japanese and she tells how it is, I know this thread was about Americans living in Japan but what about Others from other natiions. Surely Japan wishes to do global business and no doubt many from the UK Buy Japanese goods. so surely it is worthwhile trying to get to know other nationalities. Please do not call me a troll again-- I object very strongly. |
Basically, here in Japan, if you're a gaijin then you're American until proven otherwise. That's a Japanese generalization, not a western one.
really? So what must they make of others. maybe we are all from another planet entirely? I wonder why my Japanese friend longs to stay here in UK? if we were anti Japanese-- would she be welcome and still wish to stay. Generalisation is Not good-- and sadly too many of us have the wrong information or knowledge about other nationalities. why do so many immigrants wish to come here? I used to hate the Japanese because of the terrible atrocities during the war. It took getting to know individuals that has altered my perceptions and that is why I have been doing a lot of research-- but I know that unless I actually Lived in Japan-- I will never know what its like to be gaiijin or foreigner there. |
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Yes but How Long have you been there? Two weeks? Here it depends if one lives in a village or large town or even a City. In the Cities one expects to see many people from global countries. I suspect that anyone who maybe dresses differenty will get looked at whereever they are. I wonder if you were staying in a village etc that things would be different. Also any clubs you may frequent? when I was young I never saw anyone from another land. even black people were a novelty-- but now we are more multi cultured-- and I love it. Religion is usually the biggest obstacle. Anyway-- do enjoy your time in JAPAN and Do what you are there for? Working there must be different from being a student I should imagine. |
Thank you all for your responses.
I spent a year in Switzerland for my job and living and working there was quite a bit different than being a tourist for a week or so. Now, Switzerland loves for foreigners to come there and retire, ie. spend money and not work. Working in Switzerland is another story and a tough sell -- the laws there make sure that the job you are going to do cannot be done by (available) Swiss people. I also believe that learning the native language is the number one priority for living and/or working in a foreign country. |
I take exception to you saying my post was a troll post--
Don't bash America for no reason and I won't call you a troll. You know there are other people in the world apart from Americans. Well yeah, I'm in another country if that means anything. Maybe Americans think they are better than anyone else-- I take people individually That's a generalization. No one ever said this in this thread. Are you insecure? Please do not generalise about us and I'll try not to generalise about You. I haven't said a single thing about the UK. You called Americans war mongerers, which we're all not, and accused us of occupation. You cannot always believe everything you read and hear about us. Once again I never said anything about England. No doubt as you are now living in Japan you will become a fountain of knowledge about everything Japanese. That would be cool. I know this thread was about Americans living in Japan but what about Others from other natiions. Surely Japan wishes to do global business and no doubt many from the UK Buy Japanese goods. so surely it is worthwhile trying to get to know other nationalities. I don't get why you're so insecure about this. Someone just said "What's it like for an American?" This thread could just as easily be useful to anyone from the west, but I don't think it's too outlandish to say that there are actually some topics that differ between the UK and America that could merit a different response depending on where you're from. If you care that badly, start a "What's it like for a UK person in Japan?" thread. Working there must be different from being a student I should imagine. Not really. I have a job here as well as go to school. All I had to do was get a work permit. Really? So what must they make of others. maybe we are all from another planet entirely? No, just until they ask where you're from. Even without speaking I've had people ask me here if I was from America, where I could just as easily be Canadian or English. Please do not call me a troll again-- I object very strongly. Don't insult another country for no reason and you won't be called a troll. |
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Other foreigners though tend to assume that you`re from the same place as they are, and if you`re not can be quite unfriendly. Quote:
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Also, people assume you are an American because the majority of non-Asian looking people are American in Japan. So, sorry if it annoys you but please give them a break. |
come on. a*hole turists or foregin residents are everyware.
we have lots of guys here from the uk who come to pick up girls. some of them thought it would be fun to "piss on our monument of freedom" and now most of us think they are all pricks when the truth is (at least when i was in nottingham) they are nice people. on the other hand there are also lots of a*holes from our country who go to uk or other places and act like jerks. but when it comes to general thinking then the worst are russin turist. specially in warm climat zones - egypt, turkey.. when i was there you can immedeatly tell them apart by the way they act. just damn - like, they have absolutley no idea what it means NOT to be in the center of the world. P.S i actually like that everything is different and the pople act differently. thats usually, i think, why people visit the place. P.P.S japanese still hold grude against americans? for example i love germans tourists despite some things that happened... ;) - specially old folks who come sight seeing and simply end up in the bar having talks like for 10 hours straight. they must be best tourists to have and fun to talk. |
"The AMerican Occupation must have had an impact-- and the American military presence? "
Dogsbody wrote the above: "The occupation was long enough ago that I don`t really believe it has any impact on people now. The American military presence is confined to bases in very specific areas - most certainly not all over Japan." NYRORIN. Surely the Occupation did have a huge effect on Japan and the japanese. some may forget it-- but I imagine there are many descendents of the armed forces and Japanese women from that time and as OKINAWA seem to have to bear with an ongoing military presence that must also have an effect. somewhere on this thread someone mentioned that there are many children born/ American/ Japanese--- Someone also mentioned the special relationship between America and Japan. America won the war so the American influence must have had strong repercussions and many changes than pre war when the soldiers etc were willing to die for their Emperor. I am in my seventies but memories can last. THe younger generation may not understand the result of ww2. I also strongly feel that history should never be forgotten because how else to avoid the same thing happening over and over. |
I haven't said a single thing about the UK. You called Americans war mongerers, which we're all not, and accused us of occupation.
excuse me-- I did not accuse Americans of being war mongers. I mentioned the Occupation at the end of WW2 and all the changes that were made. Plus the military presence in Onkinawa I think maybe you need to do some research on the history of the war. I was a child then---------in UK. you cast aspersions on the UK-- not all of us are racists and NOT all make fools of themselves in other countries. I personally despise any of those who do and give a bad name to Britain So Wings-- what are your plans to stay in Japan? I hope you have a wonderful time. Considering many Europeans are White-- why on earth should the Japanese think they are automatically American? We in UK are allies of America. |
I don't want to start a war on this but I did feel to ask the question was limiting the thread to just the AMERICAN point of view.
I took exception to that question. Insecure-- At my age not at all-- . I think a better question would be for any foreigner living or working in JAPAN would have been appropriate because this forum does have many AMERICANS on it-- but also it is global. No doubt there are many Americans in JAPAn after all the military presence in OKINAWA or elsewhere. Maybe there are more work opportunities for AMericans as I believe you don't need a visa like we would have to obtain. SO maybe its not such a big deal or difficulty for Americans relationship with JAPAN-- but what about the rest of us? Hence possibly a large American presence? Yes I could ask about UK presence inJAPAN but far better to cover everyone who lives or works there. |
Jeez, I just asked a simple question and look what it has turned into. I can't believe that I've been called to task also. I just asked the question because I'm thinking about moving to Japan. That's all. I found this forum and it seemed like a good place to ask. I guess I was wrong. I'll continue my search for another forum -- the internet is a huge place.
For those that gave me good helpful responses, I thank you. |
Actually, if you want to be in Japan, no matter what country you're from, you absolutely must have a reason to be there and a visa to prove it. You're a tourist, you must have a visa; you're a student, you need to have a student visa; you want to work, you need a work visa given to you by a Japanese embassy/consulate outside Japan. The only difference is the process by which people from various countries have to go through to get the visa(for example, they might require extra documentation).
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I find it amusing though when foreigners complain about other foreigners getting drunk and obnoxious as though this is just something peculiar to foreigners! Either some people don't go out much or they choose to ignore all the Japanese guys getting drunk, obnoxious and trying to pick up girls as well. In the bar I own in Hakodate it's hardly unusual to see Japanese girls getting drunk, obnoxious and trying to pick up foreign guys for that matter.
I personally don't act like that myself but I am almost 40, been married for over 10 years and have a kid so my days of heading out partying and trying to pick up girls are well and truly over! ;) I don't think I would want to live in Japan though if I didn't live in the Niseko area. Most of the foreigners and Japanese alike who live at the ski resort are here for very similar reasons. We love skiing/boarding and the laid back lifestyle of living at a ski resort in an absolutely beautiful part of the world. This commonality very quickly breaks down any barriers between the different peoples living here. Extremely few of the foreigners here are english teachers just over for a year or two. Many have settled in the region with their families and hope to be here for good or at least very long term. This makes a big difference to their behaviour I think because if you're only here short term it's easy not to care how you effect others around you or how you are perceived. When you've committed yourself to a place long term and invested time and money into the local community you're much more likely to be respectful and caring of that community. |
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Walking on eggshells? Where do you live? |
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We just had a group of Japanese people come to America for exchange. In the end they said Americans eat alot, touche XD, but that we are not as shy as Japanese people sometimes are. Also Japanese people apparently say "Thank you" and "I'm sorry" alot more.
They understand alot of English =D |
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A bit off topic, but I have yet to speak to anyone who was willing to die for the emperor during the war. For country, for family, for glory - sure - but I think that assuming that people were ready to die for the emperor is a bit of leftover propaganda. It would be along the lines of saying those who fought from the US were "willing to die for the president" - or those fighting from the UK were "willing to die for the king". Quote:
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I think it`s more of an issue that Japanese tend to assume all foreigners speak English, regardless of where they are from. Quote:
They don`t experience any real consequences for their behavior - they just have their fun then hop on home and leave the fallout for the long term residents who DO care and DO invest in their communities. THIS is what makes me generally very critical of other foreigners in Japan. |
well I was under the impression that the Japanese Military were definitely proud to fight and even die for their emperor. those who flew the planes and expected to kill themselves in the process. The way they fought like tigers and also they were expected never to be taken prisoner-- they were expected to commit seppaku.THey treated captured prisoners really badly and despised the POW's for allowing themselves to be captured. I believe the military were brain washed. considering what they did in ChiNa andother parts of ASIA. I do not compare them at all with american troops etc. Many captured Brits and those allies including australian and dutch were treated horribly.
THe Emperor was thought of as a GOD. I believe that General McCARTHUR kept the emperor on in order to prevent further conflict. There is much history on this period. MY japanese friend told me that the EMPEROR was highly thought of and said the Japanese were not to know his name. she was very much in awe of him. It was the Emperor who announced the end of the war. |
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forgive me PUMA I gues I took offence-- so please forgive me. So surely as well as AMERICANS there are others who live and work in Japan. I guess I over reacted so my apologies-- I am from UK. |
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With Binge drinking that is too common in UK there is much lack of control. I have seen films where some BRITS really let their country down with their awful behaviour. Personally I feel that if a country makes you welcome then you should show respect to that country. It is a bad advert to behave badly in another country-- When I read the book TOKYO HOSTESS that was about the sex and drinking clubs and the YAKUZA influence and how many backpackers or even trainee students mix with the wrong crowd at some of those clubs-- they can earn a lot of money very quickly-- but also place themselves at risk. I believe all countries have similar situations of course. Some of the programmes we have seen on TV about Japan tend to pick out the unusual-- such as the MAID cafes, places where you can take in oxygen-- Love Hotels etc but I am sure there is so much more to JAPAN than those few instances. |
I'm not an American living in Japan - I'm Japanese living in America, but I've seen enough of the former to say the answer depends on the person.
Some Americans are going to have a great time while some are going to regret their stay. Knowing both cultures pretty well, My word of advice to an American going to Japan is: 1) Learn as much as possible about manners and etiquette. Manners are important in Japan and are different from U.S. 2) Learn to read the atmosphere and brush up on your social graces. It's impossible to read and remember every dos and don'ts from a book, so good people skills helps smooth things over. 3) Japan is a group oriented country rather than an individual oriented country. Make good presentable Japanese friends, specially of the same sex as yourself. From everything to getting a job or finding an apartment, not only can they help you by word of mouth, but they give you credibility. These three things should help you the most into integrating into Japanese society and start opening up doors for you. Final not: If your going to Japan for the girls, then leave the average girl alone. you'll just add to the bad foreigner gossip and hardly score anyway. The Japanese girls that want foreign guys go out of there way to seek them out; military bars, sports bars etc... where foreign guys hang out, that's' where they go. The ones I saw at the Nagasaki Navel base bar were very pretty but they didn't want to have anything to do with me since I'm Japanese.:mad: |
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I have talked to quite a few people who served in the war. I have yet to encounter someone who joined the army for anything other than the following three reasons - 1) It was a well paid job, 2) To be respected/"cool", or 3) To protect home and country. Japan was not in good economical shape at the beginning of the war. Jobs and resources were pretty scarce. The military was marketed to young men as a way to make money for their families, secure a better future, and to just be cool and respected. Most of the guys who joined didn`t join for the glory of the emperor - they joined because it paid well and you could gain a lot of respect by climbing the military ladder... Something that relied on skill and not family background. Later, when Japan was the one being attacked - people joined to defend home and family. They believed that the lives of their families were at stake, and were indeed ready to die to protect them. The rest were basically drafted. It`s influencing through propaganda, but not really brain washing. Soldiers do what they`re told. I think this is true in ANY military. Personal feelings about things don`t really matter in a group. I have yet to hear any praise of the emperor from any of the guys who served in the war - most of them thought the whole thing was crazy and hated the government for putting them into the whole mess... But if you think your family and your home is at risk, you will fight to the death to defend it. I recall watching a documentary about the suicide pilots - including interviews with a few who had been lucky enough to have not been sent off to die. They were told that the Americans were murdering and raping all in their path, and to think very hard about their own families, homes, friends, and the life they`d lived up until now... And they were prepared to die not for glory, not for the emperor - but to protect their homes and all those left behind in Japan. They were prepared to die to protect home and country. Whether what they were told was true or not is irrelevant. What is important is that they believed it. At the individual level, is this so different from service men elsewhere during WWII? Quote:
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Would not someone high in the government announce that sort of thing outside Japan? ETA; Something people who were around and heard that announcement have expressed was not about the emperor seeming like a god, etc - But more the incredible sense of betrayal as they`d been led to believe things were much much better than they really were... And those who did know the real situation were disgusted that it had taken so long. To get more of a feel for what people actually thought, and not how Japan was interpreted in western propaganda of the time (which has a very strong influence on how it is depicted today) - try reading some Japanese literature from around that period. I think you`ll be surprised to find just how similar in thinking and "normal" people were. |
Yeah, I have never heard my grand father, who was 21 when the war started, say anything about Emperor. Older people probably have more respect for him, but it was not like Emperor ruled Japan, unlike a lot of westerners believe. If you study Japanese history, you'll see Emperors stopped being an actual ruler about 800 years ago. After that, they were more or less the symbol of other actually rulers' legitimacy. You might know, the title Shogun(将軍) means "a (military) general", and its unabridged version is 征夷大将軍 (Great general of North conqueror). This title had been given by the Emperor to almost all rulers of Japan for 700 years but that does not mean the Emperor had much power over them. This is a peculiar Japanese political game which may be hard to understand at the first glance.
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I have the book that contains many letters from those involved in that war written to the ASAHI SHIMBUM.
We are talking from 1941 as far as AMerica is concerned-- I have seen many films on this subject also I wonder if the people you have come across were involved in that war? okay ask survivors actually in that war. Why were they so cruel? why was seppaku expected from any who were captured. those young pilots attacking ships giving up their own lives-- suicide bombers. I have heard so much about this. THe burmese railway-- the copper mines-- the cruelty was horrific. I have heard that much has been kept back from the japanese people about the truth of that war The Japanese Emperor: man god? |
mmm. It is becoming extremely off topic, so I'll just say that view is very different from what I know from my experiences with my 3 grand parents, and from my knowledge of Japanese history. If you or someone start up a new thread on it and I have time, I'll comment in there.
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Well, being an African American living in kyoto, Japan I have experience just mostly death stares from all the Japanese I walk pass. Not once has anyone came up to me and ask a question or helped in anyway; But I already expected that. I mostly walk with a someone whenever go some where in Kyoto, I dont know if that the reason why they nevered appoached me or not. I try my best to speak the language and follow cultural guidelines. I not on the heavy im actually fairly skinny and short ( not saying that really matters). I do however overhear some japanese compliment on me on my clothing without them actually telling me...but whatever the case maybe, im going to stay positive and continue to enjoy me stay here.
I am a student studying in Japan for one year. |
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