Golden Arches
 

I was in my geography class a few days ago and the professor started talking about how McDonald's affects the culture in countries . He gave an example of how when the first McDonald's in Russia was built, they had to have a person sitting out side telling the customers that employee's were not laughing at them but were happy to see them. Anyway, my question is, how do you think McDonald's has affected the cultural norms in the countries that they have been built? Is it sort of forcing American culture on other countries, and has it?

Since when did McDonald's = American Culture?

I was more confused by how having a restaurant opened would be considered forcing culture on another country.

I don't see how a resturant could force a culture on another one? If the resturant is based on a different culture that someone doesn't like, couldn't the person just choose not eat their? I can see that it might influence another culture but not force it.

Well, for example, say McDonalds opened up in a country that has been able to maintain its own culture that has lasted for hundreds of years. If a McDonald's is built there, wont other companies start to come in and build their buildings, won't this affect the architecture, if people there like McDonald's and how the restaurant is like, won't they start saying, "Hey, how come the other restaurant's are not like this?" Won't this force business owners in the area to change? And since McDonald's was started in America, I only assumed that maybe there are some American elements in "McDonald's".

What your talking about sounds more like influencing than forcing. That question would probably be brought up, but that doesn't mean that the other buisnesses have to change like the one is liked the most. besides, the same thing could be said about the other places. Someone could really like the place and then ask "why isn't the McDonald's like this place." Plus I didn't even think McDonald's had a cultural theme. The only american thing I can think of that it has is the food.

Well as for the culture thing, it brought burgers didn't it? I mean in some countries they would never have eaten food with their hands and not utensils, right? It's a small thing but it's something right?

True, but you can still eat hamburgers with a knife and fork (I used to use a fork to eat french fries). The changes would be so small that they would either.

1) accept it by begining to eat with their hands, and start eating beef thats between two pieces of bread (that is what a hamburger is in a nutshell)

B) partially accept it by eating the food and not use their hands (or vice-versa)

III) Not accept it and the resturant would close due to lack of business, or change their menu to what is considered acceptable.

Besides, doesn't Mcdonalds usually try to blend into the culture now days? I remember seeing a picture of a McDonald's in china and it looked like an old style chinese building (it might have been that building used to be an old style chinese house, but I don't know)

I'm no businessman, but doesn't McDonald's have to have permission to expand into a country before anything? They have no obvious political power, and I would assume they couldn't just invade a random country without some form of consent from that country's goverment.

It's probably true, the style of the restaurant or food, if never before seen by the people, would have an impact on people's impression of restaraunts. But that seems like an issue of willingness. Referring back to the first point: If it was determined that being open to the new concept was detrimental to society, they probably wouldn't have allowed it. Otherwise, I can hardly consider having new influences a bad thing... unless, possibly, I were communist?

I'm not saying new influences is a bad thing, just that they may lead to some things being forgotten. And I think McDonald's does have political power, I mean doesn't money kind of translate into political power? And if they were able to get a McDonald's in Tiananmen Square, don't you think McDonald's can put their stuff wherever they want?

I agree with the idea that it doesn't force culture, but it influences culture onto other countries. I think it introduces new things to people and kind of changes their diets.

As far as McDonalds trying to blend in goes, at least in Japan the architecture is not too different than America (except maybe up until recently... like half a year ago in my area, they had smoking areas). I'd say that in Japans case, they try to blend McDonalds' menu with 'Japanese' things. There are certain things on the menu that are only in Japan. I don't eat there, so I don't really know. However, I do remember the distinct smell of the American McDonalds-- the Japanese McDonalds has a different smell. The smell of fast food is almost like a brand name-- each place has its signature smell. That's all chemistry and food science junk.

Another thing that might happen (but again I have no idea) is the introduction of Coca-cola. Even if the country already has coke, McDonalds might make it more popular. I think Coke owns some other fast food companies as well, so having a McDonalds might be testing the market out for other fast food operations. Pepsi, being a rival might want to take some of that market away by opening their places as well.

Those types of places might cause the already established fast food places to try to compete with them by changing their own approach. Who knows... I wonder if there is any data on this kind of thing. I also wonder if there is any corrolation between McDonalds (or other fast food places) in areas and obesity and certain diseases and stuff like that.

Going back to Japan- did you know that it is almost traditional to order KFC chicken on Christmas? How's that for changing a culture?

You know I never knew that. How did it become traditional to order KFC for Christmas? Is it cause people are too lazy too cook their own chicken?

I wasn't saying that you were. I was just implying that it's probably a good thing. I personally doubt McDonald's has enough influence alone to effectively control a people's culture. If we were talking about fast-food franchises in general, then that would probably be a different story.

I agree, McDonald's has some* political influence in the form of money, but not of official standing, and definitely not enough to which it can act on it's own, free of international procedures. But, then again, I'm not the most educated on these things, this is just my opinion.

That reminds me of one difference that caught my attention when eating at a McDonald's there: their Kid's Meal toys. Instead of a single figurine or card, like what you would usually get in the U.S., they included what seemed like a 4-section toy car rail set, including the car. And we ordered and received two of them that day. Of course, it was still cheaply produced, but the packet was bigger than the bag for the meal.

I'm not sure if that's how they usually pack their toys, I only ate McDonald's there once. I thought it would be fun to mention. lol

Yeah thats another thing, I know there are differences in McDonald's depending on where they are. I'm interested in knowing what some of these are. I have never been to any other countries beside Mexico, and the only difference from the one I went to there and the one's here that I noticed is that the McDonald's in Mexico tastes better.... I think.

There are hundreds of McDonald's restaurants, and believe me, no one has forgotten anything.

Think it though. Japan is not a Christian nation, so there was no Christmas tradition. KFC Japan, rather ingeniously, "created" the tradition all on its own.

KFC created the tradition... that does make sense. I'm sure there are other examples of that but I can't think of any. Either way though, doesn't the fact that they can create these traditions and that they do these things, doesn't it in a way make it sound like they do "force' these things on others as long as those people choose to accept them?

Valentine's Day cards were invented by the greeting card companies.

It's only "force" if people DO NOT choose to accept them.

What MMM is saying is definitely true-- it all comes down to whether or not people choose to buy into a product or tradition like the ones mentioned.

In the case of these big fast food companies, though, they use their money to promote their products through a lot of advertising. It becomes a cultural thing once people start buying into it-- I don't know how it came to be this way, but McDonalds is like the place to go after school. You'd think it'd be fine dining if you heard the way kids around here talk about the place.

Although things are changing-- I think wireless internet in Japan was less common than America for a while. So you get places like McDonalds offering Wi-fi services for free, companies like Nintendo get in on it and put a sign up that says something to the effect of "DS compatable" or whatever and they attract more of that younger crowd to their stores. It's no accident... places like that always try to attract younger people. I think that's why you'll see them around schools. I think if you can get younger people, then you can affect culture. Talking about happy meals brings back memories of when I used to eat McDonalds (it's been over 10 years now). I remember getting toys from different cartoons or movies or whatever. I think that would be a way to help promote American movies or TV shows in foreign countries. I don't know if they do it, but if they play certain music in there, then that helps sell the music (or at least the culture to which the music is connected). If you look at a place like starbucks you'll notice they have CDs for sale and stuff like that.

I think that kind of thing will change the culture of a country. For starters, inviting people to play DS while they frequent your restaraunt might be pushing it for some cultures. It's like eating while playing video games, basically. Your parents might tell you it's wrong, but when you're out in the real world and places are basically inviting you to do it, it's gonna change your outlook on things like that. When those kids grow up, they're could pass that on to their kids. So at the very least certain table manners might dissapear as a result of things like that.

About the promotion of music and movies and what-not, that could take some of the market away from whatever domestic products exist. I think music and movies are very much involved with creating a culture.

I think this is a really cool topic by the way. Your teacher is on to something-- we'll probably see this stuff come up more often in the next 10 years. I think the "McDonalds model" (in quotes because similar strategies could be used by any company I think) will have been around long enough to allow for closer examination on its effects.

My professor said that there was a study where some sociologists sat in some McDonald's in China and observed how people acted near a McDonald's compared to as away from it, and also how they acted when they were in it. I'm writing an essay about this topic for my English class, but my professor says I have to narrow it down more. And I of course also think it's interesting, although a little confusing at times...

I have to be honest with you, I don't think there are any conclusions to come to at this point. I haven't heard of any statistics that have to do with the "McDonalds model" and how it affects different societies.

If you talk about "Fast Food Culture", the best you could do is just provide examples of things like the KFC Christmas Chicken deal. There might be some other things like that in Japan... but none that I really know of. I can only imagine how many things like that exist around the world though. That sounds like an awful lot of research for an English paper.

"My professor said that there was a study where some sociologists sat in some McDonald's in China and observed how people acted near a McDonald's compared to as away from it, and also how they acted when they were in it."

This sounds cool in practice, and will probably give somewhat accurate resutls, but I think it's far from being a completely sound expiriment. I guess sociology is just one of those things, but obersvations alone might not capture the depth to which McDonalds affects societies. Obviously I don't know anything about the study, but like if they're gonna go to a restaraunt and compare how people act to how they would normally act, I'd hope they went to other restaraunts to provide a "control". Speaking personally, I get pretty anxious when I'm hungry, so I'll probably be a little more rude than usual. That will probably make me give off more non-verbal signals than just being in a place that is different from my home-culture would.

At any rate, is there a website that has the study that you are talking about on it?

No, he didn't it during class. I have that class tomorrow though. I'll ask him for if there is a website and I'll post if if there is. There is a sociologist named George Ritzer wrote a book called "The McDonaldization of Society" though.

I checked it out on Amazon... it looks like there's a new version (ver. 6). It has examples "from the digital world" which could very well be the wifi-access that I was talking about.

It sounds like a very interesting book. I might have to take a look at it. By the way, that might be just what you need for your essay. Have you read one of those books yet?

No I have not. I think I might if it will help out. I don't know if I want to but it though, so I'll probably just read it online somewhere. Books are really expensive.

Please don't talk about stealing things online. Books are really expensive because so many people steal them online. It's thanks to you the price goes up.

Oh ok sorry about that. It's just that I'm sure we all know that buying books for college is expensive, I just wasted 800$ this semester!! I was going to check at the school's library too though.

This is awfully sounds like Ramstein - Amerika. We don't eat McDonald's food and think "we must think that Amerika is great". It's just eating a fast food meal like Lotteria's.

Stop complaining. We have more piracy than never before and there is no way to bring the piracy rate down. You can complain this for the rest of your life.

Komitsuki, check out the wikipedia article on Lotterias.
Lotteria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The word McDonalds is written there almost as much as the word Lotterias. Lotterias might not have been had McDonalds not existed.

"Stop complaining. We have more piracy than never before and there is no way to bring the piracy rate down. You can complain this for the rest of your life."

This just sounds ridiculous. I can kind of understand things by giant corporations... maybe, but we're talking about a book written by a college teacher.

And X2cool... I know what you mean. $30+ is a gamble on something that you're not entirely sure about. I've wasted a ton of money on books in my day. On the bright side, you could always check out some libraries in your area. If they don't have it, ask your teacher-- maybe he or she has it.

Although there is something very cool about digitalized books that I'm lookign forward to... ctrl F. I can only imagine how many hours of my life I could've saved if they had a ctrl F function on paper books. If only I was born in the late 90's!

Are you sure about this? Lotteria uses a different brand marketing from McDonald's. I'm pretty sure that the whole concept of modern fast food restaurant isn't patented by some American corporate consortium.

Yeah, the library at my school has a lot of e-books, and you can get them from there. Although I'm not sure how that works since I haven't gotten any E-books from there yet. And I guess ctrl f would make skimming easier huh.

The problem I find with a lot of books is that some authors take forever to get to the point... it's like if I were to try to write a book haha. Sometimes I like to read what the author's point is before I read how they concluded what they did... it just makes it easier to follow for me.

komitsuki, check out the article... it pretty much says it all there.

"Business Strategies
To attract more customers, Lotteria partnered with KT Corporation and Intel in 2003 to provide Wifi access in its restaurants[7].

Lotteria has followed the global fast food trend of shifting towards health-conscious foods and remaking its image. In the face of the well being trend, it eliminated trans fats from its french fries [8]. It also introduced healthier menu items, such as the rye bread burger that had only 350 calories[9]. From 2008, perhaps a response to McDonald's strategy to move upmarket, Lotteria began a campaign to change "the image of our stores to create a mood similar to a cafe, geared toward the health-conscious as well as women customers" [10]

In March 2009, Lotteria took full control of the South Korean branch of TGI Fridays[6]. It had previously invested 10 billion won in the chain in 2002[11]."

I'm sure there are more examples in the article. Whether you agree with wikipedia or not is up to you.

It's the rules, Komitsuki. If you don't like it you are welcome to find another forum to complain on.

Nah, I find you amusing. For an American, of course. :)

There isn't a website on it. Rather the study is part of a book called "Golden Arches East" by James L. Watson.

Amazon.com: Golden Arches East: McDonald's in East Asia (9780804732079): James L. Watson: Books

Foreign business affects tradition for sure. When you see something new, you may become craze about it. I remember 2-3 years ago MOS opened their first branch and everyone waited for the queue for umm... may be 2-3 hours to try their rice burger.

I don't think that Mc = American culture but Mc, Coke, Michael Jackson or KFC represent at least part of American culture. People may think about American the way they see Mc because they know only Mc. Mc = Hamburger, Hamburger = Mc, Mc = Fast Food so American must love fast food. It's all about imagination

Before I went to Japan 4 years ago I thought that "There must be Manga shop on every corner, because I believe EVERY JAPANESE love manga", but when I went there, "hey why it's so difficult to buy manga!?"

Foreign goods/services/TV represent at least a bit of their culture in local people perspective because that's all they could see.

But there were NEVER manga shops on every corner. Don't make the mistake of thinking the McDonald's replaced the manga shops.

And MOS Burger is a Japanese company.

Japan has always been very good at adopting the ideas from other countries and making them their own. I don't think most Japanse feel threatened by KFC or Mr. Donuts, so I don't think we need to worry about it.

I think he was stating the misconception he had, MMM. Y'know, like the misconception that McDonalds = American Culture.

sI haven't travelled abroad, but when we see glimpses of big towns in other countries very often there are many macdonalds and other Western type takeaways.

They definitely seem to have spread. In fact here in the UK when towns used to have a variety of individual shops Nowadays most towns have the same type of shops-- so its almost a waste of times travelling to different towns. it is so boring. Big business overtakes so many of us-- so much from overseas as well.

Tell me about it. My town wants to demolish a plaza to redevelop the land into an area more suitable and friendly to those just passing through for the morning and afternoon commute. In that plaza is a bakery that's been active since before 1974, when my mother started going there. I imagine some shitty Dunkin Donuts will take it's place.

Yeah, and I think that's one of th problems with huge corporate business. I mean what's the point of traveling if there's going to be the same stores everywhere. I'd rather Congo a small family owned shop rather than something I see at every street corner.