I wonder what other people think?

[GoNative]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

This is right - but that doesn`t mean that she is childish. It`s all cultural. You were raised in one culture where certain things were viewed as childish, and she was raised in another where different things were viewed as childish. That doesn`t mean that she actually is childish - just that in your culture some of the things she does are considered to be so.

That's the point though isn't Nyororin. To us they can appear childish. We are not Japanese and were not brought up in their culture. You are right that judgements are being made based on our own cultural viewpoints but how else can we judge? We can't help the way things appear to us even if we do accept that in Japan they may look at it differently. As I've said many times previously even if we understand the cultural reasons behind why some things happen the way they do here it doesn't mean we have to accept them as good things. We can still dislike them!

[dogsbody70]

TO NYRORIN--------------sorry I haven't got the hang of taking quotations and transplanting them yet? Sorry so this is for Nyrororin-- oh HOW do I spell your name?


Re your previous response to me--------really? You really think so?

Of course she is an individual although raised strictly in Japan and very aware of the culture of course.

She tells me that whenever she returns to Japan her family say she no longer behaves as a Japanese. I am not sure in what way of course. Maybe she is more open than perhaps may be seen as correct in Japan.

SHe had a very hard life as a child working in the paddy fields just after the war. Work is very important to her.

It is the expressions she puts on her face that make me laugh---- yet she says Japanese must not show their feelings. Its quite amusing really-- she is a lovely woman-- well I think so anyway.

Thinking about it more-----Maybe I do mean CHILD_LIKE rather than childish. She does not stamp her feet or have tantrums as a child might do-- so yes-- I guess I mean-- CHILD-LIKE!!!


Ps when I play with my youngest grand-children-- I can also revert to my childish ways-- and have lots of fun with them-- become child-like again.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by GoNative

That's the point though isn't Nyororin. To us they can appear childish. We are not Japanese and were not brought up in their culture. You are right that judgements are being made based on our own cultural viewpoints but how else can we judge? We can't help the way things appear to us even if we do accept that in Japan they may look at it differently. As I've said many times previously even if we understand the cultural reasons behind why some things happen the way they do here it doesn't mean we have to accept them as good things. We can still dislike them!

Did you read the original link? That`s what I was talking about - not that things don`t / shouldn`t appear childish to someone from another culture. In the original article, the attitude is not seeming childish from the view of another culture, but actually being childish.

"It's no exaggeration to say that Japanese (particularly women) think on a more childlike level."

This isn`t behavior. This isn`t appearance. He is actually saying that people in Japan think like children, which I think is a pretty huge leap to make from "cultural differences may cause some things to seem child-like".

[GoNative]

Well I don't think that the observation is a completely invalid one....

[konbini]

I think it is insulting to Japanese. It generalises and stereotypes. I think it must be written by someone who did not have a good experience in Japan.

[GoNative]

Are you Japanese konbini?
Do you live here?

[chiuchimu]

Originally Posted by GoNative

That's the point though isn't Nyororin. To us they can appear childish. We are not Japanese and were not brought up in their culture. You are right that judgements are being made based on our own cultural viewpoints but how else can we judge? We can't help the way things appear to us even if we do accept that in Japan they may look at it differently. As I've said many times previously even if we understand the cultural reasons behind why some things happen the way they do here it doesn't mean we have to accept them as good things. We can still dislike them!

Originally Posted by GoNative

I couldn't agree more. I'm exactly the same person here in Japan as I was back in my home country. I'm not going to change the person I am just so I fit in better. That doesn't mean being direspectful or arrogant. That's not the sort of person I am. But I'm not changing the way I dress or my personality just to be accepted more. Accept me as I am or not at all. Doesn't overly worry me.

Sounds like, "If you're a Japanese in my country, whatever you do for whatever cultural or personal reasons, we natives don't have to like it." what that leads to, I don't want to speculate.
but as far as you in Japan "I'm going to do what I want, I don't care what the Japanese think or the fact that I'm a guest in their land".
It sounds clear to me, the only reason you are in Japan is for the snow. you don't particular like the culture or people and hence always have a negative criticism of Japan. People like you, DON'T belong in Japan. Find your snow somewhere else.

whether I go to your country or you go to mine, we should both behave in at least a minimal acceptable behavior relative to the host.

[GoNative]

The weird thing is on this forum is the somewhat extreme attitude by some that you either have to love and accept everything about Japan or you don't belong here. To me this is an utterly ridiculous concept.

So I'm not here purely for the culture and love of the Japanese people? So what? Is that the only valid reason to want to live here? It's not to say I hate the people or culture. If I did why would I have lived here for the last 7 years?? There are many things about the culture and people I do love and for me the good things here far outweigh the bad. And I believe I've given a hell of a lot more back to this country than I've taken from it. I've invested in property and businesses, have Japanese employees and have spent years promoting the region I live in. I'm not just some english teacher here for a year or two sending any money I make back to the home country with no long term interest in this country.

I absolutely love living here. No matter where in the world I lived though I would remain the person I am and you can accept me as I am or not. I don't change who i am just to fit better no matter where in the world I am. That though doesn't mean I'm totally insensitive or rude and don't observe local customs and etiquette. That's not the sort of person I am.

Thing is I have views and opinions and as you can tell I don't mind discussing them. Although I love living here I don't love everything about Japanese society (this may come as a shock but Japan isn't perfect!!! ). It's a bit like being married I reckon. You can love someone to death but that doesn't mean they don't do a few things that annoy the absolute crap out of you. Same situation for me here in Japan. So that means I shouldn't be living here? You don't have to agree with my interpretations of things but I can't help the way I feel or am affected by my experiences here. And I certainly don't have to think the way you'd like me to.

I really do find it amusing though how I get abused here for being a Japan hater (even though I love it) purely because I have the nerve to express my views on a few things I dislike. The world isn't a black and white, all or nothing place. You can dislike some aspects of this country but still absolutely love it. It's a ridiculous concept though to expect I love absolutely everything if I want to continue living here.

[dogsbody70]

Originally Posted by GoNative

The weird thing is on this forum is the somewhat extreme attitude by some that you either have to love and accept everything about Japan or you don't belong here. To me this is an utterly ridiculous concept.

So I'm not here purely for the culture and love of the Japanese people? So what? Is that the only valid reason to want to live here? It's not to say I hate the people or culture. If I did why would I have lived here for the last 7 years?? There are many things about the culture and people I do love and for me the good things here far outweigh the bad. And I believe I've given a hell of a lot more back to this country than I've taken from it. I've invested in property and businesses, have Japanese employees and have spent years promoting the region I live in. I'm not just some english teacher here for a year or two sending any money I make back to the home country with no long term interest in this country.

I absolutely love living here. No matter where in the world I lived though I would remain the person I am and you can accept me as I am or not. I don't change who i am just to fit better no matter where in the world I am. That though doesn't mean I'm totally insensitive or rude and don't observe local customs and etiquette. That's not the sort of person I am.

Thing is I have views and opinions and as you can tell I don't mind discussing them. Although I love living here I don't love everything about Japanese society (this may come as a shock but Japan isn't perfect!!! ). It's a bit like being married I reckon. You can love someone to death but that doesn't mean they don't do a few things that annoy the absolute crap out of you. Same situation for me here in Japan. So that means I shouldn't be living here? You don't have to agree with my interpretations of things but I can't help the way I feel or am affected by my experiences here. And I certainly don't have to think the way you'd like me to.

I really do find it amusing though how I get abused here for being a Japan hater (even though I love it) purely because I have the nerve to express my views on a few things I dislike. The world isn't a black and white, all or nothing place. You can dislike some aspects of this country but still absolutely love it. It's a ridiculous concept though to expect I love absolutely everything if I want to continue living here.

AS an English woman-- I am here because of my admiration of my japanese friend who is studying in my country. I wish to learn more about her life and culture.

There are so many things I dislike about much of our own UK society-- but I tend to avoid venturing into places that TURNS ME OFF-- But go where I feel more at home. All people are individuals surely-- so we cannot slam a whole nation with specific ways of living or behaving-- which the original article I posted Has DONE. I would never know how to describe those of us who live in the UK--because we are all different and I would imagine so are the residents of JAPAN. No doubt such a biased article--meant to prepare non Japanese-- of the culture they may come across in Japan and how to prepare themselves.

I personally believe that "GO NATIVE" is an extremely Honest Person and reasons sincerely. If he is not allowed to say he "DISLIKES" a certain aspect of Something-- or Someone--!!!! He is Human just like you and I.

Many people will dislike me and my opinions-- of course that is normal isn't it?

I have never visited Japan so obviously know nothing about the way of life there---myself-- I could not cope with large crowds-- our underground system gets packed-- so I no longer travel by underground.

I would like to see the countryside and small villages rather than large cities.


Surely a discussion such as this should be amicable and educational and sensible.

Nothing is Perfect-- Neither are we human beings-- ANYTHING BUT!!!


I have always enjoyed discussions where GONATIVE joins in. So often his is the voice of reason.

I believe that his above quotation is very clear and apt.